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984 days ago in 
 

Real Names

Real names is a hot topic at Unity forum now and quite expectedly there's no shortage of opinions. So, I figured we all need a bit more details about BoonEx' position about using real names in Unity.

One of the latest "scoops" read:

9. Real names soon.

Unity is planned to request everyone to show their Real names instead of their usernames. If you absolutely have to stay anonymous, no problem, but you're likely to have your Unity experience limited.

First, note that it's "request", not "require".

REAL NAMES DISPLAY WILL BE OPTIONAL

Second, we won't show your real names, unless/until you approve it.

Third, the ideas is to "add to" not to break anything that Unity already is.

We will NOT take away any of your current rights or features. Real names display may add new options that'd be available IF you display real names. Such options are "certified real name" badge or, maybe, doubled weight of vote count, etc.

Personally, I think that privacy is over-rated. We have Facebook, LinkedIn, phonebooks, PeopleSearch, GoogleMaps, etc, etc. It doesn't take a degree to locate a specific person. I bet you can pinpoint home address of at least 50% Americans using Internet. Web anonymity is a cool feature, but is a feature of the past, that's slowly dying, like it or not. That's just my opinion, anyway. Quote me if you like, but it has nothing to do with what we plan to do at Unity.

The idea is to ask for a real name at registration page (or profile edit) and display it somewhere, prominently. however....

One should be able to specifically state that they want to remain anonymous. In that case we'd display something like "Unoboonex (anon)".

One could also use a fake name and display something like "Mickey Mouse". I see no problem with that - if you feel like presenting yourself as somebody with "Mickey Mouse" being your real name - so be it. I for one, changed my first name and surname some time ago.

... so, why do we need those Real Names anyway? That's for the people who have no problems revealing their names and using this as a reinforcement of their claims, self-promotion or whatever they need it for. It's an extra feature, basically. Real Name could be a company name for example - cool for those running a Unity Store. At a later stage we plan to start "verifying" names/company names and issuing some sort of notice about verification (here's where the "limited experience" word may substantiate). Consider difference beween products bought from "SegaMega (anon)" and "James Tadeo (verified)".

BoonEx Unity is a business network, and we have all sorts of people here. Professionals looking for jobs, groups selling mods, freelancers and consultants may actually WANT to display their Real Name, but now we suggest Username as a default option and encourage the spirit of anonymity. There're buyers who actually WANT to know real names of sellers, without asking.

How would you feel if I were hiding my real name (which is Andrew Boon, formerly Andrey Sivtsov)? I am happy to have the opportunity to tell you my name and our company name and the ABN (Australian Business Number).

... and again, personally, at the age of dying privacy I feel so much more secure, because I'm one of millions again, and not just one of the few [...nerds who tell their real names online].

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MichelSwiss
Sorry Andrew, but I don't share your experience, not at all...

If Avatars and Daily Quotes are dead since a long long time ;-) this is now the age of reinforcement of Internet Privacy and Security, at least here in Europe.

Michel Bondallaz (verified)
selo12
Dear Andrew, I am personally against realnames, but if you are gonna do it In my opinion you should register the realnames behind the scene and verify the names.. People could have a verified icon or something behind there nickname but the realname should not be open for everyone only your main team.. Thats my opinion
Andrew Boon
Why would we need real names if we can't reveal them? We already know what we need if we go into a financial transaction with a customer. Unity is different place - we can't reveal your name to another person, so there's no use having it.
kinuthia
I support the verification but not the real name display. Think of ebay. You use your nickname but you can verify.
mydatery
Wow! People are still holding onto this desire to not allow the displaying of real names, so maybe I can add some confustion to the subject. And I get to make a shiny list like Andrew did.

1. Andrew stated: "First, note that it's "request", not "require"." That means you don't have to provide it, you can just say you want to be anon and you are anon. You can say your name is "nottellingyoumyname" and it will be accepted. Of course, that one will see more be very easy to verify.

2. Andrew state: "Second, we won't show your real names, unless/until you approve it." What? We have to give you permission to show our real name? How dare you Andrew make it so we have to decide if our names will be shown. That is so like... "Facebook" & "Myspace" Note that you get to choose whether your name is show or not shown.

3. Andrew stated: "One could also use a fake name and display something like "Mickey Mouse"." That means that I could lie and give you the name "Minnie Mighty Mouse" and you would never know it was really me, Mickey Mouse. I hope people are starting to see the point here. You still get to remain just as anonymous as ever.

Now, moving on into my own little tirade. If you have taken the time to get to know me, then you have more than likely talked to me on Yahoo or in off-site e-mail. The most amazing part of that is, if you have, you have my full name, minus the middle names (mother was a very cruel woman, I'm still going through Jose Cuervo counseling for those middle names) and I don't attempt to hide it.

The internet in the end is a tool, a tool that was originally designed to provide open access to information in a quick and efficient manner. Today it has evolved into a communications tool. By far the most powerful communications tool ever designed. It is this tool that the vast majority of Unity members here are building their businesses and futures on, this includes the love spammers that Unity gets in all the time. Gotta love those girls and their due diligence to tell us how much they love each of us.

As a business owner, I take pride in what I bring to the market, the services that I provide and the solutions I come up with to meet the needs of my customers. I believe that each person here has that same sense of pride. Whether you are here as code/programmer, site owner/webmaster, hobbyist or just trying to learn how php works (yes, we have some of those) you take pride in what you do.

Further, I truly believe that you take pride in who you are and in your word. You take pride in those things that you have created and there is not a single person here who is going to say they haven't done a great job on building what they have. (Okay, maybe those who title threads: Help! Urgent! Emergency!, but we'll leave them out of this for now)

Someone said in one of the threads, blogs, that if they own a business they have right to be anonymous. The truth is that if you own a business in the United States or Canada (I can't speak for the rest of the world) you are not anonymous. Your business license is public knowlede and available to anyone who wants to look it up. If your incorporated and an officer of the corporation then your incorporation papers are public available to be reviewed. If your a property owner it's out there, if your divorced it's out there, if you've ever been arrested for peeing in your neighbors bushes it's out there and it's public knowledge. If you have a phone number it is out there unless you have paid the phone company to make it private and not publish it (imagine that, the phone company charges to not print your name. Maybe Boonex can charge to not post your name... Just a joke guys.)

In the end, everything you do off-line is public information available to anyone who wants to look, with or without a computer. The phone company actually delivers the phone books to everyone's house. The business/property records are availabe at any courthouse/supervising government agency. Heck, even the IRS will turn over your tax returns to those who ask for them. Did you know if you do any job for a government agency in the US, your pay information is all public record.

At least Boonex is giving you the choice to decide if you want to provide your information or not, at least Boonex is giving you the choice if you want to provide it, if you want to display it or not. It's time to get beyond all the excuses that are out there to complain about this topic and realize that the bases have been covered, if you want to be anonymous you can, if you want to use a pseudonym you can, if you want to post a picture of your dogs behind to represent yourself you may (Please don't shave the dog, Fido really doesn't enjoy doing those photo ops).

Now if you should choose to remain anonymous and you are a vendor on Unity looking to sell your mods, upgrade sites, provide hosting services and so on, then you will be competing with those who have chosen to be public and in that end, people will use it to make a decision. I know that I would prefer to work with the person I can see than the wizard behind the curtain.

And for those who have been stating I'm all gung ho for names and hiding... Remember, that is my real picture up on Unity and my sites are posted with my real information. I am public because I want people to know I am reputable.


What a shiny list. I love my lists, they are so neat!!
tyke
im not sure why this post as got so much negative votes because its valid in its points, if you a real business dealing with real people and money is changing hands, then real names or business names and addresses are a good thing,but most of us dont deal like that, and there shouldn't be a penalty if you want to stay annon. when i have sold stuff in my stores online, people who buy from me get my details from places like paypal and thats fine, but its still private from the casual on looker, and see more that has to be the priority, detail should only be given to genuine parties who are dealing with you on a professional level, but there still has to be protection from all those people and bots collecting information about you, its a fine balance but it has to be kept.
mistertunechat
I would like to say i dont go against stating my business name. However my opinion is because i am not offering a "service" directly on boonex, i personally would not want to give out my real information.
A good example of what has happened to me in the past was on yahoo years ago i had a screen name that had my name plus numbers something like johnsmith2009, anyway some psycho looking at my profile figured out where i lived and decided to prank call my job. At the time i was working see more for the post office. Luckily she was wrong, still I just am very paranoid when it comes to giving real information online. Again real information being my real first and last name.
Like someone else said ebay verifies people without you having to give out your real first and last name. I dont mind boonex having my real information, and of course people i do business with. I just wouldnt want my real name just being out in the open for everyone to see. I am one of those people that have a unlisted phone number as well.. so i value privacy very much. Again this is just my opinion, and i do at least feel better knowing i will have the option to allow my real name to be shown or not
Andrew Boon
All valid points.

It's a little annoying how people shear the word "real names" and simply jump into hate bandwagon. Should've just added the real names display option without even telling about it. Nobody would care.
ultimate
I am not sure why you would want people to do this. i for one will not have my real name displayed don't care what you limit on me, why not tell every one to post their SS# as well and drivers license photo so identity theft can grow higher in this world. I think your product is great but your thinking on this is retarded.
Andrew Boon
Thinking, by definition, can not be retarded. Conclusions, actions, products maybe. Thinking is a thing in action.

Now here I am telling about the plan of OPTIONAL display of real names. It's only natural that if you use an OPTION you gain something, and if you don't use it, you don't gain anything. If you have problem with this option - fine, don't use it. See, some people print their names on mailboxes, some don't. Some print their names on doorbells, some don't. Some add their names to phonebooks, see more some choose to remain private. If you add your name to mailbox, doorbell and phonebook - you basically gain some extra benefits - like old friends can find you, or postman is more likely to put letters into your box, etc. This may or may not come with disadvantages or risks - so it's up to you to decide which way to go.
killerhaai
Well in Europe there is a very strong law about privacy on online media. yes its correct that in fact the webmaster has to know who are their users. But all the data may not longer saved then for 6 months.
Its really confused sometimes here.

real names checking like what was needed for a pundit is not a problem and yes needed, but realnames online don't do that.
Andrew Boon
Europe, ok, but do you use LinkedIn at all? Last time I was in London I connected with dozen of European executives via linked, , all with real names displayed. Doesn't look like an unheard-of move to me.

Oh, and again, it's definitely going to be an OPTIONAL field.
Footman
That's simply a sales job for your own personal bias on the subject. Which is fine. If real names are going to be an option, then you should also verify people who only use a nic name. You can easily verify people who want to only use a nic name by requesting certain information and NOT making it public.

As I've said before, if I'm buying something from someone I like to know a little bit more about that person than just "Nic1955" or something like that. But that's up to me if I care see more to deal with someone who isn't a little more transparent.


In the end it doesn't matter to me either way since I'm not selling any mods or services here. Wish I knew enough about coding to do so but that's another story.... lol
mydatery
Let's look at this. You said if your buying some thing here you would like to know more than a nic name. That is what this is doing for everyone.

If your paying money, you can ask the person for their name, but how do you know it's their real name? By requesting real names and then doing a verification of them, Boonex is simply paving the road for the buyers and sellers. In this instance sellers will not have to provide this information every time someone new comes along as it's been done see more by Boonex and buyers will feel more comfortable know who they are doing business with.
Footman
For "Boonex Certified Seller" type thing then fine... But to say someone who doesn't do this will have a limited experience leaves alot of questions as to what that means. I can interpret it a number of different ways.
Andrew Boon
What's there to verify if we don't have real nome and can not display it.
I can't request you to show me your "Footman's" ID.

Ok, I can verify that Footman is, say, John Smith, and just keep the name private in our system without displaying it to others. What's the use then? HOw does it help people that do transactions with you. IF things go hairy we wouldn't be bale to tell'em your name anyway, right? Right.
Technoman
I refuse to give you my real name, this is the Internet and I have a right to use a nick name on here or anywhere for this matter.

How hard is that to understand Andrew, you can NOT force or require this from anyone so now your going to ignore me and I wont get the help needed.... explain to me what what your referring to the help I need?

Your just going to roll over and say not helping you if your real name is not there ?
killerhaai
Its not required but request, so if you don't want it then don't do it. Its so easy. :)
CALTRADE
No, you don't have "a right" - this is not your site, the owners can manage it as they wish.
tyke
coltrade makes a valid point, but heres another valid point, if people are forced to have their real names displayed on here, in profiles or whatever, then they can also leave the site, on principle, this is indeed what i will do,there are plenty of good dolphin support sites that dont make you display your real names, and on principle its wrong under our data protection act, we should have the choice without penalty.
I do feel very strongly about this, ive been buzzing around the internet for over see more a decade so i know how it all works. Im verified myself so im not hiding anything, but having my private details displayed is my choice, and i will vote with my feet (by walking away) if i am forced to display my real name.
Zarcon
I know I will probably get some slack for this but here it goes anyway:

If I read this right, I believe this is an "option" NOT a "requirement". I would assume that means that if you don't want you real name displayed, fine, choose the option for it NOT to display.

So what is the big deal? If anyone who has purchased something online, you had to enter you "real" name for billing purposes. And for anyone who thinks it's impossible to find out information about yourself, see more is completely clueless to just what information is available on the internet (IP traces, Whois, Email reverse lookups, etc.)

In the end, I think that its a good idea that you have at least given the option to opt out of this if the member chooses to.
Andrew Boon
Exactly. That's only one of 12 scoops. Not a big deal. A little option. Got to get over it. etc, etc, etc.

Some people just tend to overreact when they hear some "anchor" words, like "privacy".
sgt_pfk
I myself have no problem using my real name, but certainly wouldn't think anybody should be encouraged to for no apparent reason.
How will you be verifying real names? ebay doesn't verify my name. paypal doesn't verify my name. they verify my access to an email address and bank account.

I'm Patrick Kennedy. Am I a 40 year old network engineer in Vermont, or a congressman from Rhode Island? And once you verify one of the above, how am I to trust that verification?
mydatery
Paypal does verify your name, through the bank account. If you attempt to use an account that has someone else's name on it then it gets kicked back as not being a legitimate account and the verification fails.

Ebay does the same thing. You have to verify who you are with a bank card/checking account and if the names don't match then your out of them.

The difference here is, to use all features of Paypal you have to be verified. Yes, you can have people send you money and paypal will send see more you a check for those funds. But if you want to buy stuff with funds that are in your paypal account, you must be verified. Realized that the other day when the card I had on Paypal had expired and they forced me to update the information or I could not pay an invoice via Paypal.

In the end, Boonex isn't asking for bank card information, no Social Security Numbers, No addresses and so on. They are inviting you to share your name, if you choose to not do that then they feel certain parts of the site should not be open to you. After all, if your not open with Boonex why should Boonex be open with you.

As far as trust goes, a few months ago Boonex gave everyone free licesenses in hopes they would contribute something to Boonex. There was no, make the contribution and get the license, it was done with an understanding of trust. If you did not donate they did not rip the licenses from you, they understood.

Now I don't know of anyone who told Boonex they didn't want the licenses, but I know all did not contribute as some just could not afford to. But I do know that all are using those licenses instead of running ads on their sites.

In the end, people need to just get over it. This is an evolution of the Boonex Software you have chosen to run. If you don't like it, then don't participate in that part of the sites functions. However, everyone is great at complaining/whining/screaming about what goes on at Expertzzz, this is a way of correcting that issue...

Oh yeah, it's great to whine about others just as long as the door doesn't open to reveal who you are... Right...
sgt_pfk
Please do not take this to a personal level and accuse people of whining, when they are merely expressing their opinion. Yours is valid and I respect it.

I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be with the paypal/ebay examples. They do verify that the names submitted are indeed the proper ones with the authority to authorize transaactions on given accounts. They do not require my name to be visible in order to use the sites to their fullest.

I have no problem with requiring a first name and see more last name on a site, it is completely at the whim of the person running the site and I can choose to be a part of it, not be a part of it, or submit an anonymous name. I am not whining, nor should I be accused of it.

My point is, how does Unity plan on verifying somebody's name, and what is the reasoning behind it? If I'm not mistaken, the method of completing transactions are handled by a third party, where proper verification has been made.
mydatery
You said:

"I wasn't as clear as I wanted to be with the paypal/ebay examples. They do verify that the names submitted are indeed the proper ones with the authority to authorize transaactions on given accounts. They do not require my name to be visible in order to use the sites to their fullest."

That is where you are wrong. You can use paypal to purchase something with a credit card without signing up, you can receive funds to your paypal account without verifying and paypal will see more mail you a check for that. But, you can not use funds in your paypal account to send money to others unless you are verified. Don't believe me? Try it. Open an unverified paypal account and send money to it from your verified account, then try to send that money to someone else. It will not allow it, it will only allow you to receive a check mailed to you (which means you have to provide name, address, phone number and so on even though your not verified).

Next up, on E-Bay, if you are not a verified member you can bid and purchase, but you can not sell anything unless you place a bank card/checking account onto your e-bay account which in turn means they have to verify you before you get to sell.

Doesn't sound like your getting use of the full site options if your not verified.
mallorca
Because store function and that I think the whole time about having a great verifying option - verified real name or verified nickname behind the user name for Dolphin - and for an Unity pro level for sellers in anyway it will help.
solag
great idea - and maybe the store can be set optional only for verified members?
LEEvitOver
The man's going to do what the man's going to do - I'm powerless over his decisions, but I am not powerless over my own. The idea of 'limiting' us for not giving our "real name" - is like saying "I'll punish you if you feel sad." - Threats are not well taken by some, and many tend to either "fight or flight" - and buck that system, or run from it. Trying to control people to do what they don't want to do is like eating a box of exlax and having "control". Try see more it - and you'll probably end up with nothing but a bunch of 'crap' on your hands. It's not good business practice, to say the least. I never gained a friend by trying to force someone to be a friend - have you? People give personal information because they trust and choose to - not because you tell them they have to. I'm a Counselor, and I don't force anyone to share personal information - funny thing is, they do more so when I don't push it.
mydatery
When a member comes onto your site, you have fields that are voluntary and fields that are mandatory. If a member chooses to not fill out a mandatory field (such as e-mail) then they don't get to join the site.

In the end, this is no different, except that Boonex is still allowing you to join. They are just saying, you will have limited abilities until you do the verification process.
tyke
Well im totally gob smacked, internet privacy is not a dying thing at all, in fact we will all become more internet security conscience in the future not less. While this is going to be voluntary to give your real name, it isnt really, because if you dont then you will have your usage of boonex somehow limited.
Now lets get one thing clear here, its great if you are in business, with a business name, and maybe a business address to go with it,All your internet dealing are aimed at that, but most see more of us dont, and i for one go to great lengths to protect my privacy, even with a user name, i have tyke here, but for my other established sites, my user name isnt tyke, and i do that so if anybody gets a grievance with me, they cant google my username and come and get me outside my dolphin site, and it does happen (mentioning no names) and people having paddy fits.

This is going to sound awful, but im going to say it, for a company (boonex) to be playing around like this with peoples privacy isnt really nice, especially one that doesn't really have a working product its almost as if Boonex are trying to alienate its clients before it begins. D7 isnt that good, in fact its common knowledge (in private) that D7 is a big let down, and i for one will be sticking with 6.1.4, so this isnt a smart move..

regards

Tyke
Synergy
100% anonymity while doing business on-line or off-line is never good. I think if money transactions are being made the customer deserves to at least know the seller has been verified.

This may not stop the seller from being malicious, crap may still happen if people used real names, or are verified, but a lot less of it would. Real names isn’t a cure-all, but it’s a big step, at least, for the customers of BoonEx to feel secure, and sellers who care about building and maintaining a reputation see more here.

As Andrew stated it's not mandatory, but members doing business on BoonEx should consider getting verified.
mastermindsro
I am for real names BUT not showed in a public way, the real names should be provided ONLY if the user wants to have a "verified" account type (mostly for those who will sell things on boonex), so the user sends a passport scan to boonex (just in the same way you send to become a pundit), and boonex puts the "verified" label to a user account, the real name will not be shown in public, it will be available only for admins (or even moderators)..
We need a little more security see more for buyers.. I think that is reasonable and mostly needed to get the scammers out..
mistertunechat
I agree with this type of verification. Again I dont think people mind boonex verifying them, but why would someone not selling boonex products want to be verified and have their public information displayed. Its a matter of privacy, as well as security risks whenever you display your real names online. It only takes one person to get killed or raped on here for it to look like a bad idea. And hopefully it doesnt come to that.
tyke
Yes verified is good but do not display real names in anyway shape or form on the site, thats not good.
kernelpaniker
I don't think its that big of a deal. If Boonex wants to change something with their website, then that's their decision. I think its funny that this is even open for discussion. At least Boonex is letting its users know what they are planning to do. Real names is something I require on the Dolphin social network that I run. It makes it more professional... its not a dating site.
mastermindsro
The community IS Boonex also.. and Andrew is not some kind of dictator, that's why we appreciate him so much.. He always listens our simple member opinions, and so far it worked quite well..
tyke
do you know what the biggest mistake i think boonex makes, and its very nieve, even if good intentioned. Boonex is a sort of both worlds business, internet and real world, with it seminars and meetings of real people in far off glamorous places, thats all great stuff, but the net doesn't work like that. Lets put it this way, if in the real world when you went to do your meetings are seminars, there was this shady character in your midst, trying to get all the details it could on you, your photo,your see more name, your date of birth, like the internet, this shady person collects all it can find on anybody and everybody, to sell on to advertising companies, email scammers, fake profile makers and so on, are you then going to walk up to this person and deliberately give him your name, and force everybody else to do the same.
this is not the real world, this is the internet, so verify people by all means but dont display real names on the site, along with dates of birth.. This isnt face book, and even they cant get that right with all the muscle they have, on here we cant even stop spammers emailing us every five minutes, the site will just become an open address book...
CodeSatori
I've had my real name voluntarily visible in my BoonEx profile for quite some time now. In any case, it's already available at a number of places with my photo, e-mail address and whatnot, as you kinda need a "real person" level credibility if you intend to do business online beyond selling warezzz in the peanut gallery.

I've found that using real names makes a dramatic cut in the amount of "up yours" posting online, because it's one notch closer to a real life encounter that see more may have repercussions. No identity means no repercussions.

I tend to take more seriously the writings of a person who lets his real-life persona be associated with his writings. It brings a whole new sense of responsibility into what you say and do online.

We've grown accustomed to the notion that internet is some sort of FOFFA (F**k Off Free For All) you can go vent at whenever you like and get off with it, whereas you'd probably get your face remodeled if you were to use the same rhetoric with the guys at the pub next door...

Be that as it may, of course I do understand why some people may wish to keep their real names secret, for any number of reasons, and that should always be an option as long as no commercial transactions are involved.
greymatters
100% Agree CoseSatori..

"I tend to take more seriously the writings of a person who lets his real-life persona be associated with his writings. It brings a whole new sense of responsibility into what you say and do online."

-well said
LightWolf
I for one would like to know what part of the site will be limited if we use fake names. I will NOT place my real name on here for all to see, but have no issues giving Boonex my real name, as long as the public does NOT have access to it. I do believe real names for people selling products is a good idea but only for Boonex to see if there ever is a dispute from a customer. I have had my share of bad people that wont leave me alone on here, and if they have my real name it could get scary. Not going see more to happen! There is NO reason for members to see our real names unoboonex.
mistertunechat
Exactly, i could emagine internet stalkers turning into some sort of rapists or worse. I am not a female but this is the exact reason why real names should NOT be displayed. Again i dont think its wrong for boonex to have it. But why should you have to let some psycho on here have your real information?
DeeEmm
LightWolf, Do you think that they would have acted in this manner if they had to provide their real name?
LightWolf
Can Boonex verify that is their real name? Did they find away around this? Some would use a fake name and disregard the rules. Some would not, like me and just move on. I am NOT willing to take this chance. I will just have to find a way to purchase another community software in the near future and remove myself from here. Yes I will lose out on a great software,and yes this will cost me dearly even though right now what I have is free, but that is the price I will have to pay.
 
 
 
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