HomeNotesWebHome. Update.
627 days ago in 
Tags: webhome
 

WebHome. Update.

We've launched WebHome.org a few days ago, and comments from Unity members, for the most part, mean that the whole thing is just not clear enough. So, I'll try to clarify a few points...

1) "distract attention away from Dolphin/Trident"

For many years now, we have always been working on Dolphin and "something else" during the day. Trying different things, trying to innovate, learn and change the world. Spending entire day just on Dolphin would have burnt out all the motivation long time ago. We will keep trying different things, no matter what.

Dolphin is a platform and even if it gets super-perfect, it would still be a platform, and if eventually it becomes irrelevant because of market change, nothing would save it. With WebHome, we are trying to look into the future and work towards keeping Internet free. WebHome is one of the most important parts of Dolphin project success - it's a motivation, a way to keep users coming to Dolphin sites and a way to prevent entire SN market from being swallowed by 3-4 companies.

2) "Most people aren't going to purchase a domain. They just won't."

Right. WebHome is not about domain. The idea is to connect ANY social profile as a webhome, be it a Facebook profile, a hosted blog, or your own site. You just choose one webhome for yourself and off you go. We expect companies offering easy ways to build webhomes, like for example, Tumblr offers weblog creation service.

I could be using the following as my webhome:

http://www.andrewboon.com

http://www.aboonhome.com (for example)

http://www.bazooka.com (if I have to)

http://www.boonex.com

http://www.facebook.com/boonandrew

http://www.twitter.com/boonex

http://boon.webhomes.com/

http://boon.we-host-webhomes.com/

etc.

3) "Using a real name is going be a problem with a lot of people. They won't do it."

That's the beauty of it. Nobody can possibly impose any rules on your choice of webhome URL or username. You can use anything you want, your name, somebody else's name, or a nickname, whatever. Just like in real life, you're free to name yourself as you please when you meet new people. Nobody is policing you.

4) "Many, many people have the same name - meaning the domain won't be available."

johnsmithwebhome.com

smith-home.com

johnnysm.name

jsmontheweb.net

mike.me.com

matt.ning.com

profiles.google.com/sam

etc.

5) "Even if this were to start to take off, every company on the planet is going to copy it and dilute the market. This is problem with social networking to a large extent. Making it open source will just give them a head start."

There's no point for different companies to start it. There may and will only be one, since it's not a company or a project or a software, it's like a phenomenon, it's either there or not. Like, say, p2p file-sharing - we've just agreed to the name "torrents" and to some rules to identify them. Now, we can use any software, any servers, etc. it's unstoppable.

6) "Permission Problem of Webhome.org forum and OpenID login there."

Permissions didn't allow posting to "Announcements". Fixed now. As for OpenID, we've installed Vanilla Forum, that happens to have no OpenID plugin. We'll do something about it shortly.

7) "you do not even own all of the TLD's - and specifically the most important one"

We only need one and .org is fine.

8) "By doing this, isn't Boonex concerned that this might paint a bullseye on itself (retaliation from the big social networking sites to try to take down Boonex/Dolphin...... because in a way, this is like launching an attack on them)?"

Large networks will have to understand the need for uniting. Friendster and Myspace are about to die because ANY site is fashionable only for a while, then the crowd moves-on. Facebook will go out as well, eventually. Internet is an oligopoly now - FB, Twitter, eBay, Google, Apple, Amazon,etc. The future of the Internet is in freedom and peer-2-peer sharing. Artists will sell their music from their sites, writers will publish their books on their sites, and our social network profiles will be ours.

9) "if you want this to catch on, you'll have to come up with a better presentation than a website called webhome.org that is nothing more than a few wordpress blogs and a few Wordpress social plugins."

Agreed. We only have prototypes now and need help to make sure we're doing a right thing.

10) "$200,000, is the annual salary for a half decent developer - I suggest you hire one and use them to fix Dolphin. How much has been budgeted for producing your actual software --- Dolphin 7 (in progress), and the evidently frozen Trident platform? With $200.000, you could have a team of code monkeys chipping away at $20/hour for a grand total of *ten thousand working hours*. You could even get your next-generation Trident plaftorm for the budget if you wanted."

We spend about 0.5mil annually on Dolphin and we already hire enough developers. Adding more doesn't help at all. We used to have over 20 Dolphin-only developers and that's when the worst things happened. We're budgeting in our own savings money into a project that we believe in and that will help Dolphin stay relevant.

11) "there are too many hurdles for people to jump in order to use it."

Yes, it's now for techs only, because it's not ready. Companies will wrap it into a more conceivable form in the future and we'll make sure it can be done.

12) "Boonex won't care to work on the improvement of Market at Unity, but is wasting time in resources in such projects."

We are working on Market at Unity, but changes are not evident. There're some issues and upcoming improvements but it's not always possible to tell what exactly should be done to actually solve problems. Specific suggestions are welcome. Right now we're preparing a new Jobs section and improved "reputation-based" rankings, and a better search.

13) "BoonEx can do whatever will motivate them to finish Dolphin. This is one of them."

Well said. WebHome launch has given the biggest boost in Dolphin development activity we ever had. More details on that coming soon.

14) "Personally I do not think this is a good idea and something boonex should not invest in. The concept is the same as openID, with more information stored about you by webhome.org (if I'm right). Having all this information stored by this organization takes a lot of responsibility and seen the track record of boonex so far, I do not believe they are capable of being trusted with all that information."

Webhome.org doesn't store any information at all. Everything is stored on your computer. Once it takes off we may shut down webhome.org, smile and enjoy the freedom. It's all peer-2-peer without lock to any software.

Plussed by

 
 
 
 

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mychillspot
"14) Personally I do not think this is a good idea and something boonex should not invest in. The concept is the same as openID, with more information stored about you by webhome.org (if I'm right). Having all this information stored by this organization takes a lot of responsibility and seen the track record of boonex so far, I do not believe they are capable of being trusted with all that information."

<<< Im glad your seeing it as i am.
I know how it is to get burnt out see more on things so i know where you guys are comin from. I just hope dolphin stays top priority as i said in previous post.
DeeEmm
Edited by Andrew Boon:

We know exactly what's our most valuable asset and what we should do. I would appreciate your friendly reminders, but they are too many.
Andrew Boon
We know exactly what's our most valuable asset and what we should do. I would appreciate your friendly reminders, but they are too many.
mychillspot
When we are getting into this we think we are getting something we can use now. As of right now with the bugs that dolphin has its still under construction and there for alot of ad agencies will not support us. I just hope that the rest of the boonex team can please open their eyes to dolphin and stop getting side tracked. If your getting burnt or something try and make a game out of it. Thats what i do. Make it fun again!
rhimpr
I have to agree 100% with DeeEmm... Focus on what you have....
theguypc
At least no one can say that the responses weren't read & responded too. Thank you for that.

I believe that social networking is going to go into a more private phase where it's a family, company, or organization site more than anything. WebHome may fit into that concept - but it's a concept that I admit I don't think I fully understand.

I do know that all of best tools in the world won't help Dophin site developers unless we get a script that functions properly. I think most agree that see more D7 doesn't, so WebHome is going to help legacy versions more than D7. Worse, it is more likely to help other platforms instead of your flagship product at this point. That leaves everyone that's been waiting, and waiting, and waiting, and waiting (x20), out in the cold. At least as far as Dophin goes.

This looks like another healthy dose of waiting for those interested in D7 - but it's your baby to do with as you please. I think you are going to have a lot of lost interest in D7 because of this, but I've been wrong about a lot of things in my 44 years.

Unfortunately, I can see myself making another very similar post where the "44 years" turns into "55 years", but still be no closer to doing what I would like to do than I am today. It's been years already and it's just been a waste of time. WebHome.org doesn't do a thing to change any of that.
theguypc
Every time I come here I get closer to the realization that it's either going to come down to using phpFox or giving up on having a social networking site completely. I don't want, or need to be the next "MySpace" - but I would have liked to have something going by now. D6 would have been a much better decision in retrospect, but I believed the bologna that was pitched about D7 being so great. I thought it would be worth the wait. Poor decision on my part & one that I'm not going to see more make again as pertains to Trident. I'm certainly not going to place my hopes on WebHome.

You have thousands of people who would shout Boonex at the top of their lungs with great joy if they had the D7 that was promised to those who waited. All of that great "word of mouth" is being wasted.

I wonder what the value of that really is?

We'll probably never find out, but I bet it doesn't help WebHome.org.
mychillspot
I think they are on the right track with dolphin but need to simplify it. My brother always told me to go by the KISS rule at all times. KISS stands for keep it simple stupid. Finish a simple platform without all the hoopla. If people want to add to it they can buy mods for it and then you guys dont have to worry about it! strip down dolphin 7 and work with what you got. Thats what i think and you can get a finished product out in no time at all. Then can move on to greener pastures and so many people see more wont complain.
Andrew Boon
Good one. Some news about this coming soon.
DeeEmm
Peer to peer social networking is nothing new - it's been tried by many providers and is still maintained by most. ICQ is a prime example, as is microsoft /google / yahoo / whatever messenger. Each provider extends their own version with related tools - such as the orkut social network for google talk or windows live for windows messenger. Most also integrate this into their own sites wither directly or via widgets. Millions of people already use peer to peer tools to communicate on a daily basis. see more This was the communications of the past - Social networking has evolved - it's now different.

2 things (apart from the very obvious that I've already stated above)...

1. Making users download and install clients is a step backwards as far as internet technology is concerned. This is why technologies such as activex and ajax are so successful as they allow asynchronous services such as peer to peer communications to be run within a browser - something that is easily accessible to everybody - everywhere. Installing things on computers is something that we as developers might take for granted - but is actually quite beyond the scope of most computer users. By reverting back to this technology, you have instantly just lost most of your market. Also, using torrent networks as a yardstick is also not a good idea, as in my opinion they are a completely different demographic.

2. Why try to create a service that rivals these already established major players? - you simply do not stand a chance! it would be a completely wasted effort. Why not concentrate on developing extensions to your existing product that augment these existing services. Work with them - not against them.

continued...
Andrew Boon
You failed to understand the concept completely. I specifically stated that this is not a software, not a client, and not a service. It's a set of tools and rules to facilitate connection of different clients/platforms as the network profiles. This is new and nobody ever done this. Many years ago the concept of "links" connected websites, now we need a slightly more sophisticated concept to connect webhomes. So, none of your argument is relevant here.
DeeEmm
Every one of these existing services has an API or SDK available - why not integrate Dolphin into it - extend the Dolphin messenger to work with all of the other common messenger services - to be able to transfer files / photos / videos to or from your Dolphin site. This is something that I'm sure most sites would like to have - a means by which they are open to a larger audience - Extending Dolphins capabilities even further. Giving Dolphin these kind of tools empowers it's users. (once you've fixed see more the bugs of course)

Stop looking to get kudos from customers that you have yet to win - why not try to get it from the ones you already have.

/DM
Andrew Boon
You can think of WebHome as of a single SDK that connects different services, including profiles of Dolphin-powered sites and gives any person a way to use multiple DOlphin sites without submit join form over and over, without uploading photos to all of them and without updating all of them. It would also allow access to friends from all of them at one place.
dolphin_jay
You can think of WebHome as of a single SDK that connects different services, including profiles of Dolphin-powered sites and gives any person a way to use multiple DOlphin sites without submit join form over and over, without uploading photos to all of them and without updating all of them. It would also allow access to friends from all of them at one place.

Now that would be pretty cool to have.... a "dolphin connect module" if you will....
okiewardoyo
what about your dolphin? many bugs are still there. :-)
DeeEmm
Nice Andrew - now you censor my posts.

If you were absolutely sure that there is no truth my comments then they would be easy to refute - but instead you delete them.

Did I touch a nerve?

There was nothing rude in what i said - simply a contrary opinions to yours.

Obviously I am not allowed to have such an opinion

/DM
danielmarseille
you only talk WebHome - and D7 -
We invest time and money in D7 - and -
D7 is still a beta version - unusable for a commercial site -
you do things in reverse - D7 finish and you will surely support of everyone
if there must be a revolution - the revolution is the dolphin community - for D7 - without bugs and without function strange
hd4real
You can think of WebHome as of a single SDK that connects different services, including profiles of Dolphin-powered sites and gives any person a way to use multiple DOlphin sites without submit join form over and over, without uploading photos to all of them and without updating all of them. It would also allow access to friends from all of them at one place.

@ Andrew Boon: So, does this mean a person only visits webhome.org to update their profile so they don't have to visit other sites to do see more so? If that is what I think, dolphin powered websites will have no visits/activaty at all. Everyone will just go to webhome instead of the dolphin powered sites because with webhome they don't need to update at the actual site anymore. Correct me if i'm wrong.
mauricecano
"Dolphin is a platform and even if it gets super-perfect, it would still be a platform, and if eventually it becomes irrelevant because of market change, nothing would save it."

Wow this just tells me that Boonex plans to abandon the platform all together for this new platform. I'm sorry but wasn't Trident (D8) supposed to keep on top of the latest web tech to keep Dolphin relevant. Sounds like Trident is all but dead (and where is the premium trident blogs we were promised?) and see more now you are trying to push the community in a different direction. I'm sorry but I'm not going to waste my time or give any support to this latest venture.
CodeSatori
There are sticky stuck platforms, and there are extending and evolving platforms. D7 is definitely in the stuck category, and as such quite vulnerable to market changes. If there were a platform that was generic enough (as Trident promises say), it shouldn't have a problem adjusting to market changes.

@Mauricecano: I've also been searching for the *Access to Trident Blog* that I should have received when I upgraded my account to premium.
Denre
Sorry, it just doesn't make sense
"The idea is to connect ANY social profile as a webhome" vs. "Everything is stored on your computer"

What happens when I'm not online? How is my online presence preserved, since it's all peer-2-peer? Is my information still stored on servers/SN's supporting webhome? Should be, since my facebook account could be my webhome. This means I still visit facebook. And yes, maybe its connected to other networks as well, but as long as I do not create see more a profile there, I won't have any presence. What is the difference? How does this generate me extra traffic?


“It's a motivation, a way to keep users coming to Dolphin sites and a way to prevent entire SN market from being swallowed by 3-4 companies.”

If, as a user, I would find out that all these networks share my data, it would not make me happy. Not all these websites might be websites I want to be associated with and it is impossible to visit every individual site. Having a list of websites that I can pick from would be an option but it does not change the fact that most people would still use the "big 4".


We spend about 0.5mil annually on Dolphin and we already hire enough developers. Adding more doesn't help at all.

Instead of adding more developers, hire testers and technical writers, it might save you money on development. 'Getting back in to the code' takes more time than when it's still fresh. Good documentation will allow more people to develop mods, which brings new innovations and because of it more visitors to dolphin sites.
tomakali
an incident in my life...
i introduced my website to one of my premium customer and asked him to join my site
he is a PRO and News Agent for South Indian Cinemas who has the first hand news in many hot topics
so i asked him to join my site and he questioned me back...
1.how do i access with my mobile?
[speechless]
2.how do i post my news to all networks from your website?
[speechless]
3.how do i chat with my colleagues through mobile no matter whether hes registered in my site or not?
[speechless]
4.do see more i have a personal and customizable pages where i can display my hot news and expose it to the world?
[speechless]
5.whats the entertainment stuff u have in your site[games,apps?]
[speechless]

Andrew Boon, this is where you should stand in my shoes and answer.
we all know that you are sacrificing a lot to buildup Boonex Empire.
we all love Boonex no matter how it is...
but we are the kind of people who has some level of entrepreneurship just to become popular, dedicate our life to our website and earn some money.
even me, i spent 75% of my monthly salary for hosting, marketing, etc just to satisfy my members.
i feel bad when they complain that my site isnt worth visiting...

If D6 is outdated and dropped and we moved to D7
D7 is theoretically great but...
and trident "Trident has been in development since 2003"
im not sure how could a 2003 web technology evolve and be compatible in 2010? will that look like D6?
really, this webhome info is not going to help my needs in any way.
instead if some screenshots and bits of info been updated about trident.
that would have been posted some hopes in our hearts...

the $20/hours, $6000/month might be bugging you
We work $1000/month with 10year experienced PHP experts in India.
in that case you should consider off-shore development in Countries LIKE India...
godofwar
I just feel the $200,000 would be better spent:
1) To get the bugs out of Dolphin so people will be able to build their sites without problems
2) Make a good "how to" manual and get it in the hands of people who need it
( see http://www.boonex.com/unity/blog/entry/Petiton_To_Get_Boonex_To_Implement_TikiWiki_on_Boonex_com )
....then and only then should you look to put money outside of Dolphin. Webhome is a good idea but you are not ready for it until the other things are done first. see more Like the old saying goes, don't put the wagon before the horses (stupid saying but it applies here).
CodeSatori
If $500,000 per annum is already being spent on Dolphin, I don't think $200K would do a whole lot of good atop that. If $0,5M isn't enough to get Dolphin sorted out, it's clearly not about money.
 
 
 
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