I agree with one point here, and that moderators should be outside the system. On most large forums, the moderators dont post about the forums, being part of the community, they simply stalk the forums waiting to jump on anybody that breaks the rules, no excuses,no bending, they just moderate. I see alot of people arent keen with having strict moderating on here, and i cant see why that is. All sites have moderators, it can be the making or breaking of a site if the moderators are good or bad (read see more bad as not doing the job properly). If anybody wants to see how its done, go make a member on forumotions support site and have a read around. members get post pulled up for simple things like not naming the topics properly, USING CAPS TO SPEAK TO PEOPLE and so on. That site is full of hot headed teenagers who are full of testosterone, but the mods keeps the forum running well because they know what they are doing. i suspect if a group of us went over to that forum and behaved like we do here, we would all last about five minutes before we were banned forever. Sounds harse, but go over there, ask a question and see how fast it gets answered. I hope some how the moderation can apply to the forum too. I guess though this is where the orca lets us down though not really having a moderation facility like say VB or phpbb and the like. its just daft trying to run a site as big as this with no moderators, its been proven here as its been proven in many other places, no moderation only leads to chaos (like it or not)