Selling Sites/Licenses/Modules - Needs BoonEx Attention - part 2

Dolphin license is lifetime, there is even no upgrade fees, you rarely find such deal in software industry. Usually you have to pay expensive upgrade fees or buy software again for new version.

However there are some little limitation, which happens very rarely, like transferring license to the new user.

I hate to drag up these old topics, however I don't think the stance on selling 3rd party modules was fully addressed.

If I pay $50 for a module, then spend another $500 on customising it to add functionality, then is still the same module?

If I wanted to sell this customised module, to recoup my development costs, should I pay the original module developer another $50 first?

So if I sold for $200, then I would net $150?

I would appreciate Andrew to clarify this grey area.

Just a thought: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus 

Regards,

Richard

 There's no gray area for anyone to clear up.  I'm pretty sure you already know the answer here, else you wouldn't even be asking the question.

 Sorry HL but your cryptic answer is not helpful. It's a genuine question and I would appreciate a response by Andrew.

I have been stung before.... Now, when I have custom work done I Include an agreement within the design brief that clearly states that All code within the custom module belongs to me or my company, and that by accepting the job, the developer agrees to the terms of the condition.

It is not that I do not want developers to benefit from the work... I have no problem sharing... I often do deals with developers that allows them to re-sell the code in exchange for reduced development costs. But by the same token, it allows me not to be ripped off when that code (which is developed to give me the competetive edge) surfaces as an upgrade or new module without permission...

If you are going to do business.... Think like a business.... protect your ass....

NAthan.

RichardBishop -

Who did you pay $500 to? Another developer who was not the owner of the original module or did you do all the coding yourself?

I know you prefer Andrew to answer but here is my take:

The answer to 'Is it the same module' is technically 'Yes'. You take a base module that someone else created, you paid for,  and add a functionality/functions that you wanted it to do, does not make it your module now. It doesn't matter if you added 1 thing or 20 things. Also, most developers have some type of licensing that prohibits the reselling or redistribution of their modules.

Here is one I have taken from Deano92964:

License: IMPORTANT: This is a commercial product made by Dean Bassett Jr. (DeanBassett.com) and cannot be modified other than personal use. This product cannot be redistributed for free or a fee without written permission from Dean Bassett Jr. You may use the product on one dolphin website only. You need to purchase additional copies for use on each web site.

Unless you have a written agreement from the module owner allowing the permission for you to resell/redistribute, then your answer is 'No'.

You want to build this from scratch yourself, then by all means.

Whoever did the customization is irrelevant. I did some myself and some from another developer.

The 3rd party module to which I am referring is a customised Boonex store/ ads module, so the bulk of it is originally Boonex anyway - it's a base module for which the developer should not be selling anyway.

My point was that if I sold my customised module for $200, then I would need to pay the original module developer the same amount that I paid ($50), which covers the license amount, then the remaining $150 would be mine for the custom work.

Instead of dancing around this issue, I would like a firm yes or no, so that we all know where we stand.

There are many modules in the Market that are basically a clone of default Dolphin modules (Groups, Events, Blogs, etc.) that have been renamed and/or consists of additional functionality, so the point of it being a customized store/ads module is probably irrelevant as well.

The easiest way to answer your own question is to pose this scenario to the original module owner and see what they say about redistribution/reselling. As I stated before, the fact that you added some custom features to a Market product you purchased does not transfer the ownership and rights to the product from the originator to yourself.

However, maybe Andrew will see this topic and give you a definite Yes or No answer that you are looking for. As moderators, we have ran into these types of issues before where a developer files a dispute against someone has bought their module and altered it (leaving the original code work in place) so they could sell it. Not trying to dance around the issue, just telling you what we have seen before.

Zarcon, 

Thanks for your input, I understand what you are saying, however I believe that paying the original developer their 'royalty' would be suffient. The additional functionality would not be their property, it would be the property of the private individual who commissioned it. 

I am not a developer, I am an individual looking to recoup some development costs.

 
Ah, but who did the customization is relevant. Many modules in the market are based on boonex code. All modules start with a foundation of a boonex module because the base core functions are needed for the module to work in dolphin.

We already know that boonex allows this. It's not boonex you should be consulting here. The people you need to contact are any developers who contributed code to the module. It is their code that is in question here. Not the original boonex code.

You can take any module written by boonex and modify it to your hearts content and sell it in the market if the work on changing it was done by you and you alone. Most of my modules use the bloggie example provided by boonex as a starter. Many other modules from modzzz and others are based on the boonex groups module.

As long as no other developers are involved, then you can sell your work. But in this case you involved other developers. It is those other developers that you need to consult. Not boonex. They cannot make a decision on what your legally allowed to do with other peoples code. It does not matter if it's part of a module written by several people. Some of their code is still in it, so they have to be asked.

What you can do with future modules by boonex for Dolphin U that they charge for most likely will be different. Boonex will most likely need to be asked if your using code from one of the paid Dolphin U modules. Thats in the future.

In this case, the people you need to consult with are the people you had working on the module with you that provided code.

I agree that the original module is the ownership of the original developer, where I would have a license only, however the custom code that I commissioned is owned by me, not licensed or leased. Hence my view that the original module developer should recieve a royalty. It's win win for everyone. 

It's not cryptic at  all.  I know, that you know, if there's one little snippet of code in the module that you don't own the distribution rights to, you can't distribute it.  The only thing in your favor is the fact that it's based on a Boonex module, however, unless you personally coded the changes, you still don't have the right to sell it.  If those changes were coded by someone you hired, they did the work for you.... not the entire world.  It all depends on whether or not it was agreed that you own all rights to any custom code added to the module by others.  I can only assume that you don't, because if it were clear to you that you did own those rights, you wouldn't need to ask the question that you did.

I am not a developer. I asked the question because I was not sure what the stance is on selling 3rd party modules, whether customised or not. There is no hidden agenda or motive here, as I have made it quite clear that I am an individual not a developer. I'm not looking to make a profit, just to recoup my costs.

As an employee of a company, I sell my time in return for money, like most people. I do not own the work that I produce, my employer does.

In the case of me hiring a developer, this is no different. I, the employer, own the produced work and am free to sell it on if I want to. To clarify, I can sell the code that I have commissioned but not the original module.

In some cases that would be true.

Examples.

If your are a company, then any employes you hire to work for you and any code they write during their employment belong to you. That is however if your an employer and the employee is on your payroll.

In your case however you are a individual and you hired a developer. In this case the developer is working as a contractor and the copy-write ownership rules differ in this case.

For you to own the code the code must fall under the "work-made-for-hire" rules. And one of those rules specifically states this. --- A commissioned and copyrightable work will only be considered "work-made-for-hire" owned by the client if the parties have a written agreement signed by the developer that explicitly states that the work is "work-made-for-hire." --- If such an agreement exists then the work-made-for-hire rules apply and you would own the copy-write.

So my question is, do you have such an agreement with the developer? If not, then you do not own copy-write to the code.

So basically i am saying you need to contact the developer. Chances are the developer won't care, but if no prior agreement was made first then you will still need to obtain permission to cover yourself legally.

Copyright/ intellectual property laws differ from country to country and I assume that you are referring to the US laws/ regs.

Unity members are from all over the world, so no singe law applies, hence Andrew should clarify his stance on this.

If I was a developer with a module in the marketplace and an individual bought it from me for say $50, I would not have a problem with him adding some functionality, then selling it on for $100, so long as he pays me another $50 as a royalty - for the work the original work.

Correct. I am referring to US laws regarding work-made-for-hire. And yes, laws differ in different countries. However, Andrews position really won't matter. He is not the law and cannot enforce it. What he thinks should be done won't matter in court.

The point i am trying to make, is you need to contact the developer, work out an agreement. If an agreement cannot be reached then find out what the law is in what ever your country is. And then there is the laws in the developers country. You need to be sure which would have precedence.

The short point. Make sure your protected in-case the developer decides to sue.

Depending on the module, i also may not have a problem if i am collecting royalties for each copy sold. However in some cases i may not allow it simply because another module using my code is competing with my original. So unless i am getting equal or greater amount as commissions on those then i would have a issue with it because it is cutting into sales of my own original module.

Ask the developer. Assuming it is ok with them is not a good idea. Should not be any big deal to contact them and ask, you would need to anyway to find out where to send royalty payments.

Then: If you finally do put it in the market, you are responsible for fixing bugs and any code updates that may be required to keep it working whenever Dolphin is upgraded.  You should also maintain an open support topic in these forums, and promptly resolve any issues that arise. 

It would have to be something fairly profitable for me to want to endure all that, and not just something to recover a trivial sum of money.

Why not just write it as a Mod for a Mod, and don't even include any of the Original Mod Code in your Mod, just the changes that need made to the Original Mod Code. That way it is completely separate and you just make a notation that the Original Mod is required to install your Mod and you leave it up to the Buyer to purchase a License for the Original Mod.

Thanks, that is a reasonable assessment.

 In my case, I would only offer it to a few other individuals, not sell it in the market. 

 Yes, I have considered that, but would to keep the module whole if possible to reduce the risk of installation problems, and to be fair to the original module developers by offsetting any lost earnings through a royalty payment, equal to the original market price.