Did Markus Frind kill the most popular Forum in the World?

mydatery posted 15th of April 2010 in Community Voice. 7 comments.

I find it interesting to watch the biggest sites in the world do what they do.  Study them, listen to what the end users have to say and keep an eye on the trends that they set.  This means look at the options each of the sites have and what they choose to add or remove from the site.

The first item to get killed off recently by Frind, owner of POF, was the Interplane Instant Messenger, which is marketed to sites by AOL.  Frind used the excuse that "...the company who runs it is discontinuing it..." which couldn't be further from the truth.  In fact, Interplane is still a very viable, while poorly designed, IM Tool for sites to run and they will be happy to help you install it on their site.  So, what happened?  Did the cost of this item become to much for Frind in the current economic situation as his site grew?  He had no ability to run ads on it, it generated on it's own absolutely no revenue.

Next up, on March 29, 2010, Frind chose to remove from his site all links directly to the Plenty of Fish Forums.  Now, users must do a google search or check their history to maneuver into the forums.  While they are still there, it is evident that they are down in usage.  Frind will argue that in his mind the forums on his site are useless as they have no ads on them and are frequented by less than 5% of the sites actual visitors.  Has this had an effect on POF?

Looking through the forums, they are still being frequented by users, but it is evident at the rate that new threads are created and current threads develop that they are not frequented like they were.  Is this a tactic by Frind, who claims that he wrote every line of code for POF (we know he didn't, bonus points to anyone that can tell what CMS he is using for the main site and for the forums) to reduce the cost of his servers?  If  he can manage to shut his forums down by simply removing the menu links and letting them die on their own he will effectively alienate an alleged 5% of his user base that will still use the site for dating purposes.

Frind states that he saw an increase in traffic with the removal of the Interplane Instant Messenger, though it baffles me how this can be in this world of instant gratification and responses.  All competitors in the market are still running IM's and I can't really list any that don't operate some type of forum also.  So is this a tactic by Frind to increase Net Revenue by cutting Gross Costs on bandwidth, processor and so on?  He states in the rare posts that he makes the site is undergoing transformation and he's looking for a place to put the forums link, but 2 weeks is more than enough time to find a spot in the menu to put a simple link.

I find it interesting that Frind has built the largest Free Online Dating Site while lieing to his member base about coding it all on his own, 100% and even when confronted with proof just ignores and users remain.  He then steps up to the plate and begins to charge for a gold star and the title "Serious Member" while reducing options on the site.  Yes, he removed the IM after he began charging people for it, offers no real value beyond the Gold Star, Serious Member title and the ability to upload 8 more photos to your profile for a total of 16.

We recently argued about Fake Profiles, here is a site that was built 100% on falsehoods and has moved into the number one slot.  It is effectively removing site options on a regular basis while increasing the Ads placed on the site and charging for what used to be free.  It has even taken the route of charging to send photos of Voo Doo dolls to other members and forcing the recipient to keep the doll on their profile whether they want it or not.

Has the day come that the sites with the most toys no longer win?  Are the end users stating that they would prefer basic old school sites in comparison to the new high tech sites that we all build?  Will POF actually survive the steps it's taking or is it literally about to go under as it's owner does whatever he chooses and ignores what the users vocalize that they want?

 

 
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mauricecano
We have 1800+ members and our messenger use isn't very high. It seems to peek with new members making first connections and then they seem to prefer to switch to the trusted IM services such as Yahoo or another one.. Our forum is a ghost town and we're not sure if we will keep it or not.
ydrargyros
People tend to lean towards what's more "easy" for them, always did. Of course this is one parameter, not suggesting that the Dolphin IM is hard to use, but to point that when we challenge a mature im application such as msn messenger (which has done it's life cycle and learning curve is lowering), to one easy but new for a user to comprehend and feel comfortable (and safe) with, the old school msn still takes the prize.
@mauricecano
to best observe and pinpoint trends in matters of traffic see more on your site, there are many magnificent tools, that can help you analyze any actions your users do, and decide for the evolving of your community's website.
nix1602
Thank you MD another very educational post, and without complaints may I had, thanks again
ladybugn
hell, I believed the line about him writing every line of code... although I figured if it was a good system, he'd eventually offer it as a dating platform and sell to other dating site managers, maybe sell or dump PoF.

I registered there a couple of months ago to follow up on some of my content that ended up in his forums, but didn't find it spectactular. There sure is plenty of activity, judging by the barrage of mail one gets after logging in, it would seem EVERYone on the site views your see more profile in nano-seconds and must be your friend. Kind of creepy.

As far as killing the site, probably not. Users are notorious for lying to themselves about what features they want vs which they actually use. And they tend to think they're not a typical user, so will believe whatever is said about what features other members use frequently. As long as he tells them "this is what everyone else wants" users will nod and agree that they probably are the oddball, so might as well live with what everyone else wants.

I mean, even the thing about being the number 1 free dating site... I wonder if people just believe it because he keeps saying it.
mydatery
Actually the part of him moving into the number one slot of Free Online Dating has been for awhile now proven by sources outside of POF. I can't say for sure who did the ranking (no time to go look it up) but POF is currently in the number one position and has been. The funny thing is, POF got there somewhat by luck. OKCupid and others came on the scene offering the same thing around the same time Frind popped up with POF. I think the only difference is the line of him coding every single line see more of the site and running it out of his apartment is what made people fall for it.

After all, he wasn't the big guy on the block, just the little guy with the little site and he did it all by himself. Yeah, right.
Andrew Boon
Met with Markus a couple of times. He's a typical geek, not a programmer-turned-businessman, but a real geek, with ambitions. My guess, is that he treat POF as a tool, not as a community. He doesn't care much about people, choices, preferences. He works with hard numbers and is happy change whatever needed to see a spike in revenue. It works for him, as you can see, but this approach is not necessarily a good one.

I think POF will survive, because it works and has less marketing blurb and gimmicks see more than many other dating sites. Markus also seems to be a decent person, so he should have a good karma :)
topfan
I think Markus is just optimizing his site for monihtazation as he is running his own ad campaign which is more expensive that using adwords. so I am not sure if he is getting old or looking in to new opportunity other than online dating site.
 
 
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