Injustice in Greece

ydrargyros posted 1st of May 2010 in Community Voice. 12 comments.

The only 3rd world country with white people strikes back. Tomorrow at aprox. 17:00 the Greek Prime Minister, the IMF consultants and several European consultants are to discuss on the salary cutbacks on the salaries of greek citizens. The agenda includes (but is not limited to)

1) Cutback of the 13th and 14th salary.

2) Cutback of pensions.

3) Cutback on the leave payments.

4) No restriction of firing one's workers

5) No obligation for compensation after firing someone.

6) Greater tax for all goods being sold.

 
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Nathan Paton
Nathan Paton•1st of May 2010
 
see more"The only 3rd world country with white people..." I believe you may need to check your facts. This statement is not only incorrect, but unneeded entirely. Moving on, the situation in Greece is quite the troubling one. I've been following the country's latest economic developments since last year, and I sincerely hope the Government can find an alternate solution over the possible planning of wage cuts. Although, I don't recall some of your more "radical" additions to the list.
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ydrargyros
ydrargyros•1st of May 2010
 
Okey, firstly let me apologize if the "3rd world" nation remark doesn't make any sense, but believe you me, in native language it is thought to be more of a humorous remark than a racist one (i must confess i did have in mind that it may sound like one when i wrote it, but just couldn't express myself in English in other words)

Secondly, as far as it concerns the facts, as a humorous remark as it is, what i needed to point out was not the poverty itself, than the way other countries see more and our own government treats us.

Thirdly on the part of the "radical" additions, the list is being projected as shown here, from all greek media. It could be a game of "asking for more, to get less", a known trick of politics to make people start questioning the social achievemnts already achieved so as to later cutback on a portion of them.
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ydrargyros
ydrargyros•1st of May 2010
 
Please take into consideration the following:
a) Greek salaries, happen to be of the lowest in the european union. Don't let the number 14 foul anybody, since the yearly income is still less than the average income of a country member of european union.
b) The cutback of pensions is true. The lowest pension is to be set at 500 euros per month. Noone can live at 67 with 500 euros per month, and 37 years of work on his back.
c)No restriction in firing people is as following. the quota of firing see more workers was at a 2% for companies with more than a certain amount of workers. Now the will be no such quota.
d)The obligation of compensation was a month's salary for every year of work, after the first year of work. Now this is cut to 50%. Ofcourse we have to keep in mind that unions are also to be stopped existing so , this is a direct hit to the working class (including ALL working class)
e)Leave payments are the payment one would take for one days work , if it was a holiday and he didn't attend work. This also is to be cut to 50%
f)Tax here used to be 18% and 8% for certain goods of massive consumption (such as bread). In 2009, that percentage reached 19% for almost all goods. Now it is to change into 21-23%...

Thank you for your concideration.
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CALTRADE
CALTRADE•1st of May 2010
 
The Euro was a mistake. I'm surprised it lasted this long.
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ydrargyros
ydrargyros•2nd of May 2010•to CALTRADE
 
Yes, the way it was implemented yes! you are totally right! Remember the ECU before the euro implementation?
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mauricecano
mauricecano•1st of May 2010
 
This may be harsh but it's about damn time Greece started fixing their financial house. The country cannot continue to subsidize its citizens and grant generous social benefits and expect that they can continuously borrow to pay for everything. They are now BBB credit rating, any country even considering lending them money should demand a change in the social structure which brought about Greece's collapse. They brought it upon themselves with over socialization and lying to the EU/World about see more real debt/gdp numbers. Greece is lucky they don't get kicked out of the EU zone for the massive fraud (as the Germans are starting to call for).

There should be no compensation when firing someone or restrictions on firing people. Companies need to be able to get rid of dead weight. The citizens of Greece need to relearn self responsibility and not to rely on the government or laws to keep a job or ensure you earn a certain level of employment. Greece's "socialize" everything approach now reaps the fruit planted and its citizens need to stop complaining. The list of items listed are more than reasonable, its time for the society to change and stop relying on the Government for their existence.
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mauricecano
mauricecano•1st of May 2010
 
@ Caltrade, the Euro wasn't a mistake. The mistake was implementation. You cannot have a common currency without some sort of central financial institution making fiscal policy and the ability to enforce it. Unfortunately, countries like Greece lied and used fraud to get around EU fiscal policy and now the country threatens to cause the entire currency to lose strength which hurts all EU countries, an extremely selfish move by Greece. Hopefully this crisis can pass and then the EU can take time see more to restructure to prevent such fraud or dismantle the EU all together.

But thanks to Greece's massive screw up, those of us that dabble in currency trading are making some nice cash shorting the EUR.
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ydrargyros
ydrargyros•2nd of May 2010
 
Please excuse me for my ignorance but the economic screw-up of Greece has the very same reasons as the economic screw-up of the US. Remember EnRon? A point to point answering should be the following.
1) When talking about massive fraud keep in mind that the citizens never actually had anything to do with it, since it is all run by politicians (reminds of Bush)
2) When there is no compensation you get unreasonable firing. This doesn't help in nourising ones companies. it helps into poverty and unemployment see more (ummm look at US today )
3) Kicked out of the euro zone...that would be the day... As for the Germans, the way the whole story is put through the mass media, i'd never blame them for what they think. But they, you and us should also remember something called "occupational compensation" before we open our mouths.
4) As for the Greece's "socialising everything" please allow me to explain. We AREN't on the socialising era... but in the desocialising one. Major social claims of the people were sold and will continue being sold in the future. And i have no idea why i should be against something socialised, especially if i have been paying 300 euros each month for social security and about 200 euros in tax every year for all these. As you can understand, the answer is not privatising social secutiry and other services(as you country did for years and now reaps NO fruits because NO trees were planted)
5) Ofcourse the remark about relying to one's government is a totally irrelevant one... We pay, they do... It would have been as you stated if we DIDN't pay for all these things.

Bottom line... i would be really happy if we even weren't the next target into one's war-target petroleum-agenda, but believe me! Some things worth fighting for!
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mydatery
mydatery•2nd of May 2010
 
Don't even come in here and begin to bash the United States, George Bush or sand bag in an item like En-Ron. Your not familiar enough with any of those situations to begin to do that. The U.S. did not make the same mistakes that Greece made, in that it did not socialize every facet of life so people could be more secure.

The concept of paying someone 1 months salary for every year they have worked when an employer fires them is ludicrous. So you work for a company for 12 years and show up see more drunk one day, punch your boss in the mouth because he asks where a report is and your company has to give you a years salary to get you off the property? That is ascanine (sp) to say the least. If you screw up at work and cost your employer money to fix your mess he/she should have the right to get rid of you without it costing them anything. Hell, I'd love to see it if you screw up and cost them money that you have to cover what you cost them.


Restrictions on firing employees? What the fuck? So you showed up drunk and punched your boss, but he can't fire you because 4 people got fired last week for drag racing company vehicles in the parking lot and wrecked them. So now he has to wait until the next year? No, not happening.

Perhaps the issue here really is a gross amount of over legislation of the people and literally duct taping a companies hands behind their backs with ridiculous laws. Just thinking of those 2 items there I can say this, if I was looking to open a facotry somewhere, Greece would automatically be out of the running just because of this lunacy.
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ydrargyros
ydrargyros•2nd of May 2010
 
@mydatery
There's not any bashing and i'm really sad you see it as one. Nevertheless, i will not be stopped while talking about matters that do not only afflict your country but the whole world as well.
-First of all, comparing the US with any other country would simply be a mistake. What i tried and probably my English mislead you, was to parallelize situations similar to each other, certainly not equal though in terms of magnitude nor severity.
-Secondly, i'm judging from what i'm being informed see more by the media, assuming you do too, when judging a country like Greece, from which you have no, or little personal knowledge as well.
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ydrargyros
ydrargyros•2nd of May 2010
 
@mydatery
-Thirdly, i never said the US tried to socialize every facet of life, on the very contrary i'm merely pointing out that both extreme cases, socializing everything or nothing, are simply wrong. May i please also inform you that Greece has only 2 socialized companies, we much got rid of almost everything past 20 years, so you can't blame us for trying a socialization.
-Fourth point of interest in your comment, is that you explicitly focus on a simple idea concerning the firing restrictions, see more partially translating a legislation you are not aware of. Maybe of course that is also my mistake, not trying to explain the whole legislative measure, present and changed after the restriction dismiss. The law explicitly protects the companies from such behaviors, and not only the worker. Only difference is that if a company has to fire such a worker they should also provide reasonable proof and arguments upon firing over 4% of workers if and only if that company has over 200 workers.
What's wrong with that?
Now the changed legislation removes both...reasonable argument,proof AND the 4% quota. If you believe that is logical and just for workers just say so!
If you were looking to open a factory somewhere you should go to China, Pakistan, Malaysia or other low-wage countries where all known american brands do business and operate, and believe you me, we'd be really glad if you did, thinking of the unemployment percentages of the US.
Thank you for your consideration and please remember this is not a debate about countries, it is about the injustice brought by the new legislative measures.
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Marinach
Marinach•6th of May 2010
 
Typical charming Greek. Don't get me started . . . . lol.

White people indeed!!
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