It's not as easy as it seems...

slimgoody posted 6th of September 2010 in Community Voice. 16 comments.

So I did my research last night, which kept me up until around 4 a.m. I read a few articles, tried a few things and pretty much got mad along the way. I will admit one thing, Learning SEO is NOT an easy thing. It's not necessarily hard, it's just something that no Average Joe would sit down and take the time to learn. It's alot that goes along with this SEO trick and if you don't have the patience to learn it, you won't get anything out of it.


I think I was at the point last night where I was ready to hire a professional web marketer. It's a time consuming thing for me, especially since I'm a music artist, music producer,Full-time mother, Full-time wife, as well as a product review assistant. I find it hard to include this into my life and I think thats where the frustration comes in at.


Ok, lets stop all the whining and get to the blueprint....


So the question is, what exactly did I do last night. Well I Found this article called "37 ways to market your website." I've read this article  in the past, I just never put anything that was said in it to good use.  It was the current project that I 've been working on  that got me much more interested in reading it. I read down the list and then I put together a trial and error log. So far, I'm on number 4. I have no idea why I thought I was going to get through the entire list that night. I must have been out of my mind. Everything on that list is not going to pertain to me and what I'm trying to do. I have learned that there is no one way of optimizating your site. There isn't a perfect blueprint thats out there giving you the secrets on how to do it. (I'm sure Google has something close to that.) But there are a whole host of people who have techniques that have worked well for them.

So the idea is to take a bit of information from all of those people who have had success with SEO, and create my own successful layout. Which in turn, makes my journey even more grueling. I LOVE THIS STUFF!!!


After all the philosophy........


The only real thing that I did last night  was put together an SEO article. And since it was time for me to update that area, that seemed to be perfect timing. I learned the basics of putting together a keyword density article of 0.5%-5%. (I think) I also learned how to figure out what my keyword density is without having to depend on programs to do it for me. It's something like, count the number of keywords you have, divide that number by the number of words in your article. Move the decimal point over twice to your right (in your answer), and  you'll have your article keyword density. It' s still a little confusing but It makes sense once you get the hang of it.


I'm still not sure if this is working, I did grab a few extra visitors yesterday,with no other advertisment what so ever. So hey, I guess consistancy plays a huge roll in this venture.


So here I am.......


Getting my feet wet and getting a headache all at the same time. I will tell you one thing, if I find that it's too overwhelming for me to handle on my own, I will grab some help. There are many professionals out there that do this for a living. I would suspect that they are professionals for a reason. If I feel the need to be apart of the reason, then you better believe I will. But don't think for one minute, that 'm going to stop learning what I need to learn to stay ahead of the game.....


Until next time,


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SEO is a beast, just like website marketing, or any marketing for that matter. It does appear you are on the correct track anyhow, but i can tell you as an experienced SEO tech, there is more to it than meets the eye, specifically when working with any dynamic website. SEO was designed and developed for static sites, there are some success stories with dynamic sites but there is a lot of work involved in getting a dynamic site optimized. then when you are working with cached and gzipped environments, see more the robots DO NOT Like that at all, i can assure you.

I can tell you 'a' key to optimization --> tons of relevant text, dont worry about being pretty, dont worry about the format, aesthetics have no bearing on SEO, and so many overload a website with graphics, the larger part of the site is one huge image, and the textual content is minimal. keep the images, videos, audios to a minimum, draft articles, that are clear and concise, share those articles across the www, there are many sites that take article submission, and the object is to provide others with relevant content, while providing you with a link back from whomever uses that article.

keep your data fresh on your site, stale data, and i mean 2-3 days old, is just that, stale data, the bots dont like it, and you will see a decrease in PR, if that even matters.

well enough of my babbling.

Well thank you so very much for that information. That was refreshing all the way around. Can you please explain to me what you mean by cached and gzipped environments not being liked?

As far as sharing the content on my website. This wouldn't be considered copied web content right? Because I heard that robots don't like that either. Thats one of the reasons why I haven't really taken the time to throw my articles across the web. Being pretty is not apart of my agenda any longer, TEXT,TEXT, TEXT!

Now see more let me ask a quick question, would using content from other writers and putting them on your site, make the robots mad?
Andrew Boon
I believe that SEO, per se, is overrated. I mean it's a good thing, but it should come naturally. The idea is that search engines try to rank "good" pages, not necessarily "optimised" pages, and they keep getting better at it. All you need is to make sure you don't screw it up with a major mistake, like using Flash for content or getting into into link-farms scam.

We have had good SEO results for a good while now, and still get a great flow of free SE traffic. In 10 years we see more tried a lot of things - professional copywriting, in-house links-exchange (3-4-way), buying links, content sharing, etc, etc. And... if I could rewind and start over, I'd just forget about SEO and would do the old-school business development and website being as simple and straightforward as possible.

1. Keep you site fast, simple, clean, readable.
2. Stick to classic markup structuring - H1 for main title, large readable text, highlights where needed, H2s for secondary titles, meaningful alt texts for images (actually telling people what's on the image),
3. Readable amount of text per page, usable amount of links per page, links out to thematically relevant sites.
4. Regular updates and addition of interesting new content (something other would want to link to).
5. Perfect your product and your knowledge about it.
6. Don't do anything else. All "tricks" MAY give you a little bit of boost, like 5-10% over a long terms, but they would take a lot more time and money than they're worth.

Some of the best resources that use this strategy effectively for years are:,,,, etc. A cool "side-effect" is that your site doesn't become a monster that needs constant care.

So, in short:

Keeping your site lean = the best SEO.
Everything that you stated is something that I read during my research. Alot of experts have stated that content is whats going to get you through to where you want to be. And since this is something that seems to be the most popular, thats what I'm sticking to. At the same rate, now we need to juggle how to write proper content to get the search engines coming back and ranking you.

I don't understand how people figure doing flash content is going to get them anywhere. Yeah it looks pretty but see more after all the flash is gone, then what?

So I'm guessing that everything that you tried over a 10 year period should be avoided? None of it worked? None of the things you did, helped you in any way?

So basically what you are saying is that it's not as hard as everyone is making it seem. Because that is what 'm getting from your comment. Are we making it more difficult than we should? Is it as simple as creating good, relevant content?
that is good advice, if we were running a static environment, and just keeping dolphin running at a moderate pace is a fight on its own.

cached content ends up creating some weird strings at the end of the file. the file name also needs to be legible. basically SEO starts from TOP DOWN concept. using dolphin makes it somewhat difficult because of the issue with meta tags, and the fact that you cannot utilize meta tags effectively across your site.

there are approaches to get around that, but i would say to focus on up to 10 pages of your site, a decent sitemap submitted to google helps some, and others there is no difference. see more as an example:

the query dolphin stand alone RMS is interesting, because this is not something i actually focused on, but certainly google likes the pages and the information. and this is coming from a dolphin/orca environment.

Dolphin 6.1.6 did not run a cached environment per se' however, i have not really tested to see what the results are for caching content across this dynamic platform.

as Andrew has said, keeping your site clean and functional is the most important item. keeping good content on your site is of the utmost importance. you can go through the motions with sitemaps and keeping google on top of your site, but in all honesty, the search engines will find your site, might not be at the pace you want them to, but at the same time, consider the millions of sites that are on the internet now, compared to just 5 years ago.

keywords, content, and dont abuse either.

My Pateince level is all over the place. I throw a peice of content up and expect immediate recognition. Maybe updating my site with content every single day will give me the results I'm looking for in the near future.
Great tips from everyone on this one. A+++
Hey, I'm all for great content, keywords, site structure, etc. No doubt that onsite optimization is important...

But lets not forget the most important aspect of SEO : Backlinks (or links to your site)

There is a bit of a myth that permeates across the net and it is this:

"Build a great website with great content and the search engines will love you."

No, the search engines love links.

The honest truth is that without high quality and relevant links you will never rank high see more in the search engines (unless it is for some keyword or phrase that hardly gets any searches).

What people really mean is that building a great site with great content "may" encourage visitors to link to your site. This is what SEO people call natural or organic links. Every really great site with great content will "eventually" acquire its share of "organic" links. However, many of us want to speed this process along and acquire some "additional" links on our site's behalf. This is what we call link building, and in my opinion without active link building by far the majority of websites are doomed to a quiet existence.
Now you jumped right in with a really good point. I'm still trying to learn this link building matter but I do know that it plays a role somewhere along the lines. I'm not sure how to go about building links to my site yet but I'm sure I will figure it out. I have yet to create content worthy enough for back links, but then again I haven't done anything with my content yet neither. I figured that getting back links is going to take some serious time, so do I just build links through my content? see more Do I Find a good keyword and link to a site that is relevant to the word? This is the only thing that makes sense to me when it comes to link building. ............................
Andrew Boon
Ranking high on nearly ANY word, including heavyweights like "sex" "dating" or even "viagra" isn't detrimental to website success. None of those words gives any substantial amount of traffic to sustain a business. You need "long tail" traffic to create sufficient volume. How to get links to your long-tail-search-destination pages? Links exchange and buying links is counterproductive. Building links to your long-tail content requires really interesting and unique see more content and nothing more. You'd sure need some link juice to jump-start deep-indexing, though, but not much.

Now, take a look at Google Instant, released yesterday. Matt Cutts commented that the new system induces even more long-tail searches and even less second-page clicks. What does it mean? It means that the "middle class" of rankings is now completely out of luck. If you rank 14th for "social network" - you're not going to get a single click a day! You would have to either rank #1-2-3 for "social" or look for luck at the "social network for fishermen in texas". Ranking for "social" is a problem - no amount of link building would get you there. Top 1000 search words would return massive sites that are impossible to kick out, because they have loads of "natural" links. For the longer phrase, however, you can't build links effectively, because you can't target specific anchors, since they are all too small and only work well in large volume. I think this is going to be a trend with search engines in the coming decade - links will mean less, content will mean more, natural links will help.

Pick your niche and become the best in it.
Andrew Boon
... and to reinforce my point, BoonEx is now getting most of free SE traffic for long-tail phrases and words like "boonex", "boonex dolphin", etc. Some of our sites used to rank #1-2-3 for words like "personals", "dating", "free dating", etc and that never helped them all that much.
Well when my site was #3 in for "chat rooms" (it fluctuates a bit so it might not be #3 at this moment), this keyword/phrase was sending me about 1,000 of my approximately 3,000 visitors/day. This is more than all my long tailed searches combined. For example, I've been #1 in for "singles chat rooms" for a long, long time now, but this key phrase only sends me about 30-40 new visitors a day.

Now I do understand what your saying. I do get a higher see more signup rate for long-tailed search phrases. Also, these phrases are a more reliable form of traffic. Nevertheless, I certainly don't mind the traffic I get from "chat rooms". And if any SEO expert could guarantee me a top 5 position in the SERPS for a word like "chat" or "dating", I would gladly re-mortgage my house and pay this expert anything he/she wanted. Sadly, however, I know nobody can make this promise without lying through their teeth.

I guess the big question for me right now is how to acquire more targeted traffic from people who are looking for exactly what I'm offering. My bounce rate is around 33% which is way too high. I realize that "chat rooms' is not the best way to summarize my site. However, ranking #1 for "late night hook up" definitely doesn't send me many visitors.
With that said, I honestly need to decide if my efforts would be better spent promoting a site like Chat Retreat instead of UstillUp. I like the idea of a late night hook up site, but a more generic chat site would appeal to a larger audience of visitors.
Andrew Boon
Large audience is good, but it may be harder to sustain your business targeting it. Competition is definitely toucher and it may be hard to gain sizeable market share. IMO being #1 in night hook-ups beats being #8 at chat rooms any day.
Andrew Boon
So I'm guessing that everything that you tried over a 10 year period should be avoided? None of it worked? None of the things you did, helped you in any way?

So basically what you are saying is that it's not as hard as everyone is making it seem. Because that is what 'm getting from your comment. Are we making it more difficult than we should? Is it as simple as creating good, relevant content?

Some things worked, some caused trouble, but in general I think we would've see more spent our time better concentrating on content as opposed to SEO, per se. It's like diets and magic pills for fitness - they may work, but ultimately you realise that good old regular workouts is the only thing that matters.
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