Video quality/size and RMS bunch of questions!

I have spent countless hours figuring out how videos and video comments work in terms of quality and file sizes and have bunch of questions!

Questions:

In regards to Video player flash app --

1. Viewing a video page, main video and comments video comment downloads the same time… why? was it designed to be that way?

Self recording experiment:

WIth my browser (chrome) on wide width size. A 45 second record with 256k bitrate, 95 quality, 25 FPS results:

61.flv = 22.1 mb

61.m4v = 2.1 mb

61.webm = 1.8 mb

Video quality above is clear.

With same setting above, I shrunk my browser smaller to width of 380px and then I recorded. Results:

62.flv = 3.8 mb

62.m4v = 2 mb

62.webm = 1.8 mb

Video quality above is like if it was recorded at 50-60% quality.

2. As you can see, the size of the recording video window do make a difference. Unfortunately, I cannot find the page builder for the video upload page in order to set it to fixed width. Any suggestion of where to edit this particular page? You know, some members may happen to have their window width small or using limited resolution.

In regards to Video Comments flash app --

Video comments (same setting of my browser (chrome) on wide width size. A 45 second record with 256k bitrate, 95 quality, 25 FPS results with video window size of width 617px and height 298px which is great fixed size! :

33.m4v = 2 mb (video quality is horrendous, can’t make it out)

33.wemb = 1.8 mb (video quality is clear)

3. It is my guess that IE is not HTML5 friendly, is it? I assume  IE plays the m4v format which is horrible quality as 33.m4v, while chrome and firefox plays the 33.webm format.

4. Obviously, red5 (FFMPEG) isn’t rendering m4v correctly. Please advise on the fix for that?  

5. What is the purpose of ‘enable mobile video playing’ ? I turned it on and off with recordings but it makes no difference in creating video formats of m4v and webm.

6. Recording self less then 20 seconds produces Error processing file. Why?

7. Set up test album with 2 self recorded videos as well as 2 video comments under each videos. I deleted the album. It successfully deletes the videos BUT not the video comments! I see 2 problems with that: TOO easy to delete albums (which potentially can easily wipe out many videos without any warnings) and secondly, many video comments could be orphaned and we have no way of knowing that it is no longer needed and deleted from server when it is not needed anymore. Do you see my point?

8. I notice that for self record videos (not video comments) produces FLV files in large sizes but does not delete from server when conversion is finished. How come?

9. I’m trying to figure out the best scenario for saving disk space since I expect hundreds if not thousands of video comments over time. This is my test:

256k bitrate, 95 quality, 25 FPS, 45 secs

33.webm = 1.8 mb

33.m4v = 2 mb

I figure shaving off 10 frame rates would greatly reduce the file sizes:

256k bitrate, 95 quality, 15 FPS, 45 secs resulted in:

36.webm = 1.8 mb

36.m4v = 2.1 mb

What? No difference? I can notice the frame rate reduced to 15 FPS.

I figure maybe it’s quality so I try this test:

256k bitrate, 75 quality, 25 FPS, 45 secs resulted in:

37.webm = 1.8 mb

37.m4v = 2 mb

As you can see, no difference either! I can notice the degraded quality. So I try:

256k bitrate, 60 quality, 15 FPS, 45 secs resulted in:

39.webm = 2.4 mb

39.m4v = 1.5 mb

Something wrong with this picture (or video for that matter)? Any ideas how I can shave off the file sizes here? All settings have ‘Allow mobile playing’ option on.

Anything would help in pointing me in the right direction will be very helpful. Even though, I have dedicated server which has 1 TB drive with Zarconia.net (they’re awesome!) I’m just thinking of the future.  

1. Try to enable "Use H264 Codec" option in Flash Video Player Settings, in this case .flv file shouldn't be generated.

2. Video recording is very buggy in red5, we found one version of red5 where recording at least works, but with some problems like you described.

.m4v file contains error and player couldn't always recover from these error, but during conversion to .wemb some errors are fixed and it plays better.

3. Yes, you are right. Here is a table of video formats support in different browsers:

4,6. Please refer to the answer in item 2.

5. I suppose it makes sense when you disable H264 codec, if this option ON and  H264 codec is OFF, then it should still generate m4v file for mobile app.

7. The fix for the problem should be in this ticket - http://www.boonex.com/trac/dolphin/ticket/3237

8. Please could you specify what is the module you are referring to ? actually this file shouldn't exist if Use H264 codec is ON.

Please note that module could have separate option for this.

9. Other options should still be bound to bit-rate, so try to play with bit-rate.

AlexT, thanks for your reply.

1. h.264 is always on

2. Any advice on fix or configuration file I can play around with?

3. Thanks for the chart.

5. What’s the purpose of producing .m4v files? Ipad, Iphone, Android tablets/phone such as Samsung 3 or 4 Galaxy can run HTML5 to play .webm videos. I guess it is for older or limited phones that’s out there?

7. Good idea, video comments administration.

Add to ticket or add separate ticket for this: Don’t forget when an user deletes a video album, the album itself is deleted. (too easy, no warning! Add, “Are you sure?!”. Videos are not deleted. I set up 3 test accounts and tested with lots of self recorded videos. I started deleting videos. I see in FTP that I have 185 items (videos, thumbnail images) totaling 285 mb. Some are deleted, some are not. I can’t remember which videos was under an album that I deleted.

That could be a problem when I have hundreds of members self recording or uploading videos and I cannot tell if the member quits, deleted albums or removed account. Big disk space waster for sure.

8. It’s for video player under flash apps settings. When h.264 and mobile playing option is unchecked, it produces .flv and .webm files. Not really a problem for me since I want .webm and .flv to be produced anyway. IE can play the .flv and chrome can play the .webm file. For now, until .m4v problem is solved then I will stop having .flv files to save space.

Additional questions:

A. When h.264 option in flash apps (video player) and mobile playing is turned off, is it supposed to only produce .webm files, is that correct? I still produce .flv and .webm files.

B.

Test 1: I test self record from IE (video module) with h264 off, mobile playing off, file downloading on.

Save title as “record from IE”.

Chrome and IE plays video in Flash player.

I click on ‘download’ button. It downloads as “record-from-IE.flv” file name. I look in FTP, I see file names are 83.flv and 83.webm.

Test 2: Same filename title naming results as above but h264 turned on. Mobile playing off. file downloading on.

Chrome plays .webm video file in HTML5 player I assume. Click on download button, downloads as .m4v but right click mouse on video player and ‘Save video as...’ downloads as .webm file.

IE plays .m4v in a player I’ve never seen before. Click on download button downloads as “title-name.m4v

Self record video tested with chrome and IE.

Test 3: h264, mobile playing on, downloading on.

Same result as test #2

I go back to 1st test video page, “record from IE”. I can play the video. I click on download button and results in ‘Page not found’. A bug! It happens when you turn on h264 after it was self recorded with h264 off.

Please advise.

Flash apps settings for video player and video comments for all tests was used with 256 bitrate, 95 quality, and 20 FPS. Latest chrome and IE on Windows 8.  

2. We hope future version of red5 and flash will produce better recordings.

5. webm is still not supported everywhere - http://caniuse.com/webm

7. Thank you - http://www.boonex.com/trac/dolphin/ticket/3355

A. webm file is generated by additional module - HTML5 Player, if you delete this module webm file will not be generated at all.

B. It maybe different files for playing and downloading depending on different settings.

FINALLY! After many days of 100+ possible configuration of flash apps settings for video comments to run ok on IE 11. Previously, on IE, you could not make out the scrambled video with green flashing over it, same goes when you download video to your computer. It would work on HTML capable browsers (I used FF and Chrome) but not IE. 

This is what I found that makes it work for IE (I know it sucks but majority of users out there use it). for someone else who want to know: 

h264 on

Video player height: 400

Enable downloading: on

Enable mobile playing: on

Bitrate: 256

Quality: No more than 83

FPS: No more than 15 

Microphone: 5 (I have not played with other numbers)

Max recording time: 60 

Whew... can't belive it took me this long! Now I have to figure out self recording upload function in the video player module... Hope this help others save their frustrations. By the way, if you want video comments to work fine on HTML5 capable browsers, set no more than 95 quality. 

I'll report back here when I find something new, go ahead and play with your numbers and let me know what works. 

 Not sure what your problems were..

this is some video comments, first one with IE 11, and second with Chrome, default settings here as this is a testing site updated today with the latest SVN pull so no special settings were adjusted.

see this link for video comments, login for demo users too, USER: demo PASS: demo1

http://www.recoverstormtreasures.com/m/videos/view/Gladiator-ndash-Are-You-Not-Entertained

IE plays .m4v in a player I’ve never seen before.Now that is the HTML5 player for IE, each one is different according to Alex.

Open each one in a different browser like Mozilla too, it will look different too.

Not sure why default settings would work for you and not for some. Mine wasn't pulled from svn. I have 2 sites, one is recent download from boonex and fresh install with same problem as my other site. 

Don't you notice it takes a long time to preview your video (a minute of recording) because default quality is 100? (as some reported in forum) it works better when quality of 95 or less. Try changing some settings and record. then change back to your default settings, it's never the same. Yes, clear cache and check FTP to make sure as my 7.1.4 still cache DB even though it is disabled in admin. 

I don't know why in your case. The video looks like it has FPS setting of 10 or so and show blur with movement while mine do not. That is curious. Thanks for the demo and eager to hear from you once you've changed settings. You might discover something else :) 

 That site is current today, nothing in that area was changed.

The comments also work on my big site.. 7.1.4 that is not updated yet.

Going to the recover site to change the settings some to see what happens, will update shortly.

What may have a factor in my quality or ease of process is I have a dedicated RMS I built myself maxed out for Dolphin use only. 

http://76.123.106.199:5090/

Your welcome to use my RMS for testing to see if that is an issue for you, I have about ten sites I let use my RMS, it is also the most recent version.

I do have to add that Zarcon or Nathan needs to chime in here, looking a one of Zarcons personal sites, his server is extremely slow at streaming the videos to my PC which I forgot to mention to him today...that might be an issue they need to look at.

If you need the access to my RMS, I will need your URL via PM please.

I'll send the other port setting there too.

Yeah, I did a MTR test earlier today and noticed it, was working fine until sometime today so it's just a temporary thing. 

Thanks, I will test your RMS shortly. One thing I do notice on your site that my samsung galaxy 3 phone is able to play HTML5 video on your demo site. Mine stopped working for some reason as it used to work before but haven't checked that in few weeks. Same goes for my recently installed development site as well as my other site, both not playing on my phone and my girlfriend's phone. Yes, I do have HTML5 player module installed. 

 Scratch that, the comments are processed via the ffmpeg.exe in Dolphin.

And scratch that comment too.. lol, it is used, I don't know what I was thinking.

I just did a two minute video comment at 2048, 25FPS, and recording at 100.

The preview time to show was 13 seconds, and it's here,

http://www.recoverstormtreasures.com/m/videos/view/Gladiator-ndash-Are-You-Not-Entertained

2 minute video.. quality is what it is, that might be more core changes I remember this being talked about a couple years ago.

The quality also is not good as I have zoomed in on the TV screen.

 It looks like you haven't upgraded or looked at 7.1.4 in a while... qmin and qmax no longer exist, it now uses these values: 

"playX264" => $GLOBALS['sFfmpegPath'] . " -y -i #input# -b:v #bitrate#k -threads 2 -vcodec libx264 -s #size# #audio_options# #output#",

    "play" => $GLOBALS['sFfmpegPath'] . " -y -i #input# -r 25 -b:v #bitrate#k -threads 2 -s #size# #audio_options# #output#",

    "image" => $GLOBALS['sFfmpegPath'] . " -y -i #input# #size# -ss #second# -vframes 1 -an -f image2 #output#",

Note it is little different from default header.inc.php as Nathan suggested adding -threads 2 to use 2 cores to convert the videos. 

 It has been a long day, lol.

I've been on here for 15 hours now and working on my site the whole time too.

Upgraded? LOL, all my sites are current.. the recover site is the latest SVN so I kinda do keep track. lol

I even took the new module Boonex has for 7.1.5, Site Customizer, and installed on all my sites as well. 

http://www.boonex.com/forums/topic/Site-Customizer-a-new-BoonEx-module.htm

Thinking about what you just posted, I did also forget that, plus, I don't go that deep into the the video edits as video comments worked fine at the quality as is.

My bad! Of course you are current! 

So far, my testings on your RMS revealed the same results.

My first test with my above settings on your RMS; 83 quality and 15 fps: 

Same result as my RMS which produce good/acceptable quality. 

I try with 95 quality, 25 FPS and produces bad video quality on IE 11. 

I try with 90 quality, 20 FPS and same thing. 

I go back to my settings that I suggested above; 83 quality and 15 fps 

Video bad quality! What? Oh man... I feel like I've wasted my time all this time! Settings I put in flash apps seem to get stuck no matter if I clear cache or not. The setting I put in apparently kicks in after some time... it's got to be my site(s)! 

Oh boy... more hunting to do! I'll get back to you if I find or suspect something. 

Kudos to Newton for allowing me to test on his RMS to rule it out! Much appreciated! 

AlexT and everyone,

Update:

Everyone, my mind is pretty shot by now but wanted to give you heads up to ignore my input on values of video comment quality and FPS. I’ve pinpointed it to flavors of browsers used to record from. I was jumping all over the place across 3 different browsers.

AlexT, Red5 is not very buggy as you make it sound like, sure a few bugs that can be ironed out. The video uploads works great to play on Chrome, Firefox, and IE browsers. Tests below focuses on video comments.

It all points to browsers that is used to record video comment from:

Record from IE:

IE play video = bad quality

FF play video = good quality

Chrome play video = good quality

Record from FF:

IE play video = good quality

FF play video = good quality

Chrome play video = good quality

Record from Chrome:

IE play video = bad quality

FF play video = good quality

Chrome play video = good quality

I don’t have mac to test Safari self record from… anybody else? Now the hard part is telling my future members not to use chrome and IE to record from if they want IE users to view their video comments but can use both to view them. Now I need sleep!

 Why are you setting the Flash Comments so low?

the examples of my video comments on this file, 

http://www.recoverstormtreasures.com/m/videos/view/Gladiator-ndash-Are-You-Not-Entertained

The settings are for my RMS,

100 Recording quality and 25 FPS, I know you don't use audio but I have that set at 44 kHz

What do have your "Converting Video BitRate kb" set at?

2048kbs is what I have selected, from the post above, you show 256kbs, that is TOO low. If that is what you have set, then that is the main reason your videos look bad.

@Newton, later in my posts, I mentioned to disregard the low settings as it had to do with IE. 

Some people like me report choppy video when quality is set higher than 95. You don't seem to have that problem (when I connected with your rms) as you've customized your FFMPEG. http://www.boonex.com/trac/dolphin/ticket/3326

When self recording in video comments with setting of 256 bitrate, 95 quality and 25 FPS from firefox, video play is good that even IE can play video good too. (if recorded from chrome or IE, and IE plays it, it's terrible!). Anything more than 256 bitrate doubles or even triple (depending on how long video comment) disk space on my side. I cannot have that as I expect tens of thousand video comments in the future and must conserve space.

1 minute video comment at:

512k bitrate = 4.3 mb

256k bitrate = 2.4 mb

I need to emphazie that even at 256 bitrate, 95 quality and 25 FPS produces acceptable quality videos when viewed in a video player. Ultimately, the problem is the IE part. I’m trying to figure out why IE interprets things differently. I am suspecting it has something to do with how IE handles the HTML5 player.

If video comment is recorded from IE and IE then plays it, it’s garbled. But playing the SAME video comment recorded by IE plays good on chrome and firefox.

 If a 2TB server won't hold enough, you can always purchase a leased PC for about three years, only then pay for Cocolation Services, that way you can add physical HD when needed on your own private machine.

Here's an update on how to make video recording "work" from IE as well. I tested with different numbers just because of frickin' IE "corrupting" or garbling recorded videos or playing them. Or vice versa, videos recorded with chrome plays good in chrome but corrupted video playing in IE. It's unfortunate that higher percentage of people out there still use IE. 

Here is what works for IE when recording video (using video player module and video comments): 

256k and 512k bitrate works fine.

h264: on

Quality: 95

FPS: 15 

That works for all browsers (recording and playing). The quality is not the best but it is at least bearable.