Boonex don't let us down!

mastermindsro posted 4th of September 2009 in Community Voice. 76 comments.

Well I posted a ticket on trac called "Credit System & E-Gifts" posted on - 08/29/09 06:08:44, and yesterday (3 September) I see on Expertzzz.com a mod by a member of the staff called "Points and Gifts System" posted on August 29, 2009 at 09:23...

I see Boonex knows what the software misses most, this being the first mod relesed by a guy from Boonex staff.. And if it misses this feature so much then WHY in the world we must have a mod and not a standard module in Dolphin 7???

If we will have to buy that module to have that basic feature - a critical feature for ANY social network website today, then I might stop collaborating with you guys.. I can't stand this kind of treatment.. Boonex always knows what the software is missing but they just want to make some extra bucks out of it in particular.. Andrew if you tolerate this "private trac" then you should continue working without your members which are stressing their butts out (yeah it's my first bad word on Boonex) coming with ideas for the sake of your dear Dolphin 7..

P.S. This is not something new, I've seen so many mods for D6 that should have been just a standard feature and they were made by Boonex staff..

This kind of parallel trac is gonna cost you all someday.. Just because some members are not sheep to follow you to the end of the world without placing questions..

If anyone else agrees with me than speak out before it's too late..

 
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VictorT
BoonEx will sort out the situation and post on that later.

Thanks for bringing up this matter.
DosDawg
victor,
why do you post as this is the first mention of this behavior. i mentioned this to you oh let me see, about two months ago. that mods were being released for Dolphin 7, when Dolphin 7 is not even an RC. you said they were working on their own time. understandably, they have that right, however, just as masterminds has pointed out, that many enhancement tickets have been posted on trac, and essentially they end up over on expertzzz for sale by the very staff who are reading the tickets, and see more never as a core function with any update or upgrade.

I for one agree totally with you masterminds on this subject. there is a direct conflict of interest when the staff who are supposed to be working on the core features, are releasing mods for profit of themself, and not for the community as a whole.

Regards,
DosDawg
LightWolf
"BoonEx will sort out the situation and post on that later." can you say bull? I sure can, i have been on this site for a few years now and same old crap on Expetzzz. Wow Boonex your losing your good name to a rip off site, is it all really worth this? Stop putting us off and get that site off line! We all know it is connected to here and workers from your company. You all should be ashamed of yourselves!!
CodeSatori
Maybe someone's coffee budget was short by $60!

Odd though, that Boonex-produced mods are being sold for a beta-level product, even while the product itself is still far from finished. One would expect pay-for mods to come out only after the main software is brought to a stable release shape.
DosDawg
my sentiments exactly, and this was expressed by me previously and obviously ignored until it has been made public on the blog.


i inquired about this the very first time i realized this was being done. but then again, its been determined that boonex staff are immune from any sort of rules, it would appear they have applied that same immunity to moralities as well?

Regards,
DosDawg
totallyfreak
i agree with mastermind, this mod is a MUST and a feature that most of the other dating or community script already included in their script... so im not willing to pay for this feature as a mod... but dolphin need it.... also im agree to buy some mod... thats will make all the dolphin website different... depend on what every webmaster buy as ab addon... but some addon is a must... and should not be as mod or extra addon...
LightWolf
I never really noticed this until you brought it up, this is not cool..I agree with you 100%.
houstonlively
Am I the only one that see's 2 different concepts here?

Mastermindsro, correct me if I am wrong, but what you suggested was the purchase of credits via Paypal to send 'egifts". I can't imagine why anyone would want to pay to send imaginary gifts, but that's just me... I could be wrong.

The mod by Aramis awards points by being active on a Dolphin website, and no financial transactions are involved. The 2 titles may sound the same, but I see 2 totally different concepts here.
mastermindsro
Is the same thing.. the difference is I also suggested that besides points earned for the members activity (so for free) he could also buy points (a bulk sum of points) to do whatever he wants with it.. upgrade membership, renew it, buy gifts for the other members, transfer points to anyone else etc..
Believe me I know a couple of social network websites that are making the most of money from this kind of stuff.. it's REALLY serious..
CodeSatori
There's a legion of Facebook applications that make money with people who like to send imaginary gifts of all sorts and varieties... Just make it catchy enough, people will want to share virtual stuff.
CodeSatori
This particular mod aside, I browsed around Expertzzz and noticed there are actually quite a few pay-for modules available for D7 from Dolphin developers: http://www.expertzzz.com/Downloadz/home/author/Aramis/

This sends me a rather mixed message. At the same time, there have been repeated warnings that D7 beta is *not meant for live sites*, and then all these commercial modifications --- who would want to pay premium for mods for a beta level product?

Some of these add-ons, like the CSS menus see more here (http://www.expertzzz.com/Downloadz/view/6174), look like something that should better be included in the actual product, rather than sold for $150...
mastermindsro
You got the main idea, Dolphin 7 is not even RC but we already have polished mods made by Boonex staff, in the same time the list of features for Dolphin 7.1 is still on queue and perhaps still incomplete..
DosDawg
codeSatori,
as stated on a few posts on here now, where i didnt want to be the one to rock the boat per se', i felt this was a direct conflict with morals if nothing else. i inquired about this approximately two months ago, and obviously this was ignored that i had this concern. i could post my skype conversation, but then again, that is not my intent here.

victor, it is wrong for the primary programming staff to release mods for a version of the application when the application itself has see more not been released.

Solution:
take all of the mods that are now offered on expertzzz for sale for D7, and have them as part of the core solution for D7 RC. set parameters for your staff that would curtail the release of such works for a version that has not gone public.

Regards,
DosDawg
CALTRADE
CodeSatori - I really agree that the CSS menus should have been a part of Dolphin. I'm wondering if they never included this obvious and basic feature because that mod had already been developed?
emc6250
Have not been to Expertzzz for a while as I have put a hold on any development on my 6.1.4 site while waiting for D7 (long wait for sure). But am very surprised that Boonex would even allow advertising/selling of any mods for 7 when it is still in beta. Anyone buying those is just getting ripped off. I got ripped off buying mods for 6.1.4 which was bad enough.
houstonlively
Expertzzz.com has to go. There is already some stolen work for sale for D7. I won't give the expertzzz user name here.

There are several D7 templates for sale for $50, which I know for a fact are a free download. There's a few color changes, but that's about it. I will contact the original author to confirm this.

This is prime example of why comments should be allowed by all on the mods pages on expertzzz. (moderated of course) I would be posting a comment right now asking the seller see more why some of his template files are identical to the free download..( at least the ones that I have been able to view)

What a cesspool expertzzz is!
DosDawg
houston, good find on that one. i dont have the time to involve myself in looking around for the rogues. there are plenty of them. i have noticed on expertzzz a whole slew of "modders" that i have never heard of, and they are trying to sell their work as prime. and yes, we all knew that we would have this happen.

there is no moderation on expertzzz, and you are right, it should be taken down, its a nest for roaches and rats, rogues, crooks, liars and theives.

Regards,
DosDawg
CALTRADE
Comments - yes, of course, also full name, address, phone number and perhaps references. Business is seldom done "anonymously" - it is a recipe for disaster.
greymatters
Houston, DosDawg n Caltrade i am totally agree with all of you... Expertezzz should be merged with BoonEx.
LyubovL
BoonEx shouldn't be blamed for expert's activity. Yes, some of them work with Dolphin version but as you said, Expertzzz is a free website and we do not moderate it hard. So, let us investigate the issue.
Synergy
Expertzzz is a BoonEx site so it's BoonEx's responsibility to keep it under control. Allowing underhanded activity in essence is an approval that it's OK. If BoonEx doesn't want to moderate the site, it should be taken down or sold off to someone who wants the responsibility.

Expertzzz is a reflection of your company for better or worse... and image is everything.
LightWolf
I agree with Synergy, this IS a Boonex problem and should be dealt with before it causes more hassles. We do NOT need another round with Expertzzz like last year.
houstonlively
Who should we blame, if not Boonex?
Riggy
Well it is moderated when they feel like it.. and in a way that doesn't make ANY sense! My account was suspended for pointing out the people who were ripping people off. I guess they want to keep it hush hush?
houstonlively
When I asked the $50 D7 template purveyor, why some of their source files were virtually identical to a template provided free, they asked, "Is it the same template? If it is, I will remove.... bla bla bla" Not the response you would expect if the person were sellling their own work.

What are the odds that custom images would have the exact same name? .... especially when the name is name is 16 characters long. Pretty slim, in my opinion.
houstonlively
These ripoff mods by Buxton161, AKA KMD, are a few of my favorites. These mods scrape content from IMDB.com The marketing department at IMDB affirmed that this was illegal, and they couldn't license the content if they wanted to, because they license it themselves.

How would you guys like it if you paid thousands of dollars in licensing fees for content on your site, and a guy like Buxton comes along and not only web scrapes your content, but sells it to others? Welcome to expertzzz.com where see more this sort of thing is A-O-K.


http://www.expertzzz.com/Downloadz/view/6256

http://www.expertzzz.com/Downloadz/view/5762


These are just a few examples. There's a ton of stuff like this. I suggest the site be renamed to ripoffzzz.com
greymatters
LOL. the name "ripoffzzz.com" is perfect Houston...
CALTRADE
The main problem with Expertzzz is that it is a "fake name site" - the last thing you should be doing is buying something from someone on a fake name site. Boonex missed an opportunity, in my opinion, when they launched Unity and also made it a fake name site. For some of us, our real identity can be found with just a mouse click or two, but the "fake name" culture is so ingrained here, that in the Unity Constitution "outing" someones real identity is an "impeachable see more offense" - i.e. you could lose your account for doing that.

Ok, mini rant over. On the subject of D7B mods, the first thing I would like to see is a is a block for "Newest Members" and a block for "Most Recent Visitors".
houstonlively
Almost everyone on the planet does business under a 'fake name' It's called an assumed name, dba, corporation, etc. About the only people that do business under their real name are doctors and lawyers. Caltrade is a fake name.

Fake names are not the problem. The fact that the purveyors of mods on ripoffzzz.com do not have to answer to anyone, is the problem.
DosDawg
cal,
would like to say this was one post, that i am going to go out on a limb and say kudos to you. you are spot on on this, and it appears that this is the way boonex wants to operate. now one thing, insomuch that you state, "fake name", well, this is how the internet was devised, it was not necessarily devised to have everybody's real name on here, since you well know we would run into redundant data. but in having a screen name, there should be some culpability to that users screen see more name that is relative to their real name, and the option to have that go public would be for them to decide in their account profile. i have one screen name, and have had it from the beginning of my internet usage.
CALTRADE
Houston, that is a comically absurd arguement. Buying something from a registered corporation or company, with an address, phone number and the legal name of the owner (always required) is FAR different than buying something from someone with the name "Dark Avenger" or something like that, when you have no clue who this person is or where they are located.
Riggy
The bottom line is that we are wasting our time even typing this. Boonex's response is always "we will look into this" and then the blog post slowly works its way off the bottom of the main page and everyone forgets. KMD/Buxton has been taking peoples money for what two years?? These idiots always use the same paypal address so you can tell who has multiple accounts.
CodeSatori
Whenever someone becomes a service provider (such as BoonEx is for Expertzzz) for commercial transactions, there is a level of responsibility called for --- and I suspect the service provider would be legally responsible for complicity in fraud in many jurisdictions, should it not take reasonable steps to protect its users' rights.

At the very least, the service provider should require the real name and contact details of members engaging in commercial transactions on the site, in order to be see more in a position to effectively interfere in cases of dishonest clientele, if only to freeze their site account and disqualify them from future commercial activity on the site.
greymatters
Right CodeSatori. Lots to Expertzzz on the 1st page did not even have their face photo and doing business as top Expert with a graphics...
No Need to hide your face if you are doing clean business there...
Technoman
well if this domain registar is frauding people "expertzzz.com" why isn't anyone reporting the domain?

Registry Data For "expertzzz.com"
ICANN Registrar: GODADDY.COM, INC.


For those people who got screwed you need to report it to the abuse department at godaddy.com

Why are you guys allowing them to get away with it ??????

If the domain gets reported and taken down then nobody will have to worry any longer ;)
CodeSatori
I bet you'll next be collecting namezzz for a clazzz action lawsuit! =)

It's Monday again, so perhaps we'll be seeing something more substantial from the staff on what BoonEx intendz to do with Expertzzz Warezzz.

I'll be buzzing off now. eXpertBzzzZzzz!!
mastermindsro
The comments are going VERY NATURALLY to the real problem on Expertzzz.. Indeed there are lots of "programmers" and lots of "designers" that can take your money and then if you find a problem with their product they just ignore you..
If I remember well enough Andrew said after Boonex.com will make use of the standard Dolphin 7 script, there will be added some modules to replace Expertzzz.com (so expertzzz will be taken down), this is a logical step and can be a new beginning..
Boonex see more should help buyers to take the smaller risk by tagging sellers with "Verified Seller" or "Unverified Seller" and also a buyer rating & comments on his store front page.
In order to become a "Verified Seller" you should send to Boonex your Passport scan and have your real name stated clearly..
Let's go transparent.. :)
ydrargyros
@mastermindspro
There is a direct interest conflict on what you suggest. Dolphin is supposed to be OPEN which actually means that Boonex should not have to do something with 3rd party modules-plugins or interests.
Having them act like a referee will give power to a company, minimising the power of third party freelancers that wanna start working on profitable programming. Instead i suggest what they have done with joomla, only a catalogue of available plugins-modules for one to search and choose, see more with users ranking them all to help new buyers decide whether or not to trust a vendor.
Verification of any kind of seller will burden Boonex with further costs, that will probably burden us, the final buyers. Besides, this verification is partial! Check for malicious code should also apply, as well as full compatibility with Dolphin...who can prototype that?
CodeSatori
## Verification of any kind of seller will burden Boonex with further costs, that will probably burden us, the final buyers. ##

Whatever any seller sells at Expertzzz, BoonEx cuts a 20% commission. That generates some revenue --- and also makes BoonEx a complicit beneficiary of any dishonest business.

What other costs are there, but staff-related costs? And what do the staff do at Expertzzz at the moment? I get the impression it's more or less on autopilot there...

But yes, even a "Verified see more seller" system would be a step forward. I suppose it's now up to BoonEx to decide what they wish to do with the site --- be responsible and pay attention to these issues, or let it grind naturally to its own death.
Riggy
They haven't taken the 20% in a long time. I guess they used to when the site started.
Technoman
anything sold at Expertzzz Yes Boonex makes money

so CodeSatori is correct on his statement
ydrargyros
I didn't know that!
Then it is already charged but not utilised! this 20% should at least be used for the verification of the mods!
At least they should be checked for malicious code with the same percentage charged!
Technoman
LyuBovL

you say you are not responsable but here you are posting on the blog system about Expertzzzz, so what are going to say this time about this 1 ??????????

http://www.boonex.com/unity/blog/entry/Weekly_Expertzzz_Roundup_Issue_12


Oh I bet all these mods that are for sale are mods that Members like myselff who asked for these specific daily mods to be on Boonex software So Expertzzzzz took those ideas and said hey lets add them to make Money and rip people off at same time ?????????


Now see more you understand why I never liked you "LyuBovL" your 2 faced, shame on you, I hope Boonex lets you go!
mastermindsro
Techno take it easier, don't say words that you can't take them back.. is not Lyubov's fault.. is the whole Boonex team because they've made that website long ago when this kind of problems did not even exist.. but as any website grows, the number of scammers grows.. Their only fault is that they don't moderate the website.. at all..
Boonex should nominate some moderators on expertzzz to watch over problems.. OR just to move expertzzz on boonex.com..
Technoman
master, no worries bro

look im talking on behalf of those who got screwed .... if nothing gets said whos going to do anything to anyone ?

the problem here is people on Expertzzz make money on basically on everything that everyone wants ??? why do you think that everytime someone wants something eventually you see it up on Expertzzz for sale cause people dont realize that everyone that request things here over on the dolphin blog or in the forums is supposed to be part of Dolphin in the next see more versions and is not there in the next versions but eventually you will see it over on expertzz for sale and the question is answered if you understand....
CALTRADE
This may be a minor point, but I think it goes to the heart of some of our concerns here. I have a business directory I build with another open source program "phpLinkDirectory". On the internal control panel for this application, there is a place where you can approve categories that users have submitted, but strangely, there is no place in the product itself for users to submit these categories. Why would this be? Because one of their developers developed "category submit" see more as a commercial mod, and the owners of the software, not wanting to step on the toes of a talented developer, never put it in the product.

I'm not sure that a "points and gifts system" should be a part of the product. I think a case could be made that this would be the kind of thing should be a third party mod- but where does that line get drawn? D6 had an absolutely horrible and dysfunctional menu system. Why was this never replaced in the many upgrade versions? The menu system is as basic as you can get. Could it be because a Boonex developer had developed a menu system and was now claiming the code for this basic function?

That, I think, is the potentially corrupting influence of this kind of activity. If Boonex wants to allow their developers to develop commercial mods on their own time, they should make very, very sure it is not some basic function that should be a part of the product.

Just to be clear, I love the new architecture of the beta, and hope that a vibrant commercial market forms for these mods, but Mastermind was correct to raise this as a concern.
houstonlively
Interesting. The 'Aramis' profile on expertzzz is suspended.
DosDawg
very interesting indeed.

Regards,
DosDawg
Technoman
the other thing is that I found odd is

Country: Kyrgyzstan
City: Bishkek


there is a few profiles who sell mods who all live in the same country
houstonlively
Nice find Sherlock. Those would be the Boonex employees.
Riggy
Yeah, they live right next door to Borat. Not sure the point of registering the business in aussie country?
Technoman
1 question ?
Why is Boonex Registered in Australia but most of the programers live in "Kyrgyzstan" ?

Something I am missing here ?
Aramis
Hello guys,

I decided to develop my own gifts mod several weeks ago - before this ticket.
I have never seen this ticket before, and it appeared just days after I finished working on this module.
Or, do you seriously think that it is possible to develop a new module from scratch in several hours?
I created several backups of this module, so this should tell you that this module began development several weeks ago.
I was ready to pass this module for checking to independent developers, and they see more can tell you how long this process takes.

As a result, I want to say to all you - sorry. Sorry that I decided to publish new products before the release stage. Yes, I understand that at this time we should all work as a Boonex team. We are all working - to make the release happen faster.
Currently, the coming Dolphin should become a really good platform for all of your startups. I’m sure that most your ideas should execute well. Good luck to all!
mastermindsro
I did not say that you decided to make the mod after my ticket.. I'm sure you started long before.. And is not your fault, is the fault of the entire Boonex that they don't have any rules regarding employees, so basically you did not brake any rule so you shouldn't be sorry for that..
Boonex should start making rules for expertzzz.com too as it did for boonex.com, there is a great need to have rules for boonex employees, for sellers and for buyers.. The main idea behind my post was that D7 is still see more on development and many features may still be implemented by the boonex staff, including a module like points and gifts (similar to my ticket), so we all should focus only to finish and implement all there is on trac and then do whatever we want.. I'm sorry that I dragged you into this, but it wasn't just right..
DosDawg
your statement that "you have never seen the ticket" now how could you possibly be working from trac and not see the tickets that are submitted, are these tickets not emailed to you guys when they are submitted. i find it extremely hard to believe that 'you never seen the ticket'. that is neither here nor there, the fact that you are releasing a mod for capital gain for software that technically does not even exist. since its been clearly stated that there are not updates no patches from see more Beta to RC. i dont care if you code mods till you are blue in the face, but have some constraint and release them after we have an RC on the table.

Regards,
DosDawg
CodeSatori
Go DosDawg! Yes, constraint is in order indeed. Selling a D7 mod before a stable D7 release is in fact not only strange, but it encourages customers to go against company recommendations, and also works against the very point of having D7 betas.

Why so? Because beta-testers who stick custom modifications into their systems are generally more trouble than they are of worth in a product's development cycle.

"Don't tweak it if it ain't fixed yet!"
CodeSatori
"Or, do you seriously think that it is possible to develop a new module from scratch in several hours?"

Basically yes, depending on the module and the framework used. Still, regardless of how many hours or weeks it took, it'd be nice to see Dolphin developers put their primary focus on completing D7 instead of attempting to capitalize on a still half-baked product.

At any rate, glad to see people behind Expertzzz and D7 modifications participate in the discussion.
cbassthefish
A tiny bit harsh and unfair on Aramis. I doubt he is going to stop doing what he does in his own 'outside of work time' and use it to put his "primary focus on completeing D7". What he does with his 'outside of work time' is up to him. I know I would not be that committed to my employer.
CodeSatori
I believe you missed the "conflict of interest" issue that's been pointed out. I know I would feel concerned and conflicted if I were the BoonEx CEO --- trying to get a seriously delayed product out, while developers are creating fancy extra features outside the product-to-release and selling them before the release.

Of course, if the developers need to actively generate monthly income from sources other than Boonex salary, I do understand developers running their own little businesses see more --- and perhaps it's even a Boonex consensus. Whichever way that may be, it sends out a rather weird message.
Technoman
CodeSatori
it all seems odd but my honest oppions always seem to conflict a matter of other oppions but i find this to be a bit fishy myself.
houstonlively
I have mixed feelings as far as Boonex employees offering paid enhancements. On one hand, it becomes unclear what is a conflict of interest and what is not.... but that's not for me to decide. On the other hand, who better to write a Dolphin enhancement than the coders that spend more time working on the Dolphin script than anyone else.

Now, if I see a photo album enhancement for sale that allows you to advance through the photos, and updates comments, etc.... without reloading the page... see more I'll probably have one of my psychotic episodes.

I would hate to discover, that certain enhancements and ideas were held back, so that they could be sold as an enhancement in the future. That is definitely a conflict of interest, and a line that should never be crossed.
Footman
"I would hate to discover, that certain enhancements and ideas were held back, so that they could be sold as an enhancement in the future. That is definitely a conflict of interest, and a line that should never be crossed."

This is the very basic problem you run into when allowing ANY mods to be produced, "for sale", towards D7. ESPECIALLY when it's not finished yet.

Now I believe their will be a cloud over ANY mods that come out if they're related to any issues brought see more up during all these beta's.
Technoman
Is someone taking note on all the mods that are there right now ?

We will See in a few months if things we need start to re appear on the Boonex site aka Expertzz for sale ?

Beware of whats to come ;)

Once 7.0 Final comes out watch all the mods we actually need re appear out on Expertzzz and then you know its all a game ;)
KMDEyeWay
@ Riggy

( Profile Suspended ) Priceless!

@ houstonlively

Our Movie mod that uses IMD( Internet Movie Database )

Is Not in ANY way illegal, we sold this way before it was posted on expertzzz, We have sold resale rights to this for other sites as along with affiliate rights as well.

From IMD:

We welcome and encourage these links. Permission is not required to do this, but we do ask that you acknowledge the database using its correct name when you link to us.

*As we do via ( our see more popup )

Feel free to look this up yourself:

http://www.imdb.com/help/show_leaf?howtolink

We donot hide the fact that it is using datat from IMD as you can tell from the trilers/etc.

We have other mods that use database info as well, MP3 search scripts, etc etc. All Legal!

Please, no more made up facts, lies or B.S. The scripts and Mods are legal!
KMDEyeWay
@ Riggy

( Profile Suspended ) Priceless!

@ houstonlively
( Not here to argue- Just to state facts )

Our Movie mod that uses IMD( Internet Movie Database )

Is Not in ANY way illegal, we sold this way before it was posted on expertzzz, We have sold resale rights to this for other sites as along with affiliate rights as well.

From IMD:

We welcome and encourage these links. Permission is not required to do this, but we do ask that you acknowledge the database using its correct name see more when you link to us.

*As we do via ( our popup )

Feel free to look this up yourself:

http://www.imdb.com/help/show_leaf?howtolink

We donot hide the fact that it is using datat from IMD as you can tell from the trilers/etc.

We have other mods that use database info as well, MP3 search scripts, etc etc. All Legal!

Please, no more made up facts, lies or B.S. The scripts and Mods are legal!
 
 
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