Is the future of Dolphin headed in the right direction??

Medfordite posted 10th of July 2009 in Community Voice. 12 comments.

Is the future of Dolphin headed in the right direction?

That is a question that I have had to ask myself as of late when it has come to the recent release of Dolphin 7 beta 1 being dubbed as the feature final version to say that any additions will be made available via third party means. For the uninitiated user who is just now installing Dolphin for the first time, the existing features in D7 (as I will call it from this point on) will be more than sufficient. However, for those that have been using Dolphin 6.x for some time or even older versions, it is a bit more incomplete feature wise.

BILLING AND PAYMENT PLUGINS:

Sure, you can have your users pay via PayPal from this point on with D7, but did you know that PayPal also requires that you have your web site approved if you are using it for dating purposes? (see https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame for more info), While this may not be an issue since you are running your site as a clan site or other non-dating uses I for one am not. So, I will be forced to do one of the following:

Submit my already established dating site to PayPal for scrutiny and approval which should not be an issue, but what about those who are wanting to set up a more adult oriented site, PayPal would probably refuse it.

Go out to Expertzzz.com or any other plugin site and now purchase a CCBILL, Authorize.Net, 2Checkout.com, etc plugin just to restore the already included functionality within version 6.x and the like.

While the above option may be small change for most people out there and admittedly it was before I lost my job due to downsizing and the economy. It isn’t for me now, and I would imagine for most others as well, it isn’t. Let’s take into consideration for a minute that while we have to buy the plugin, we also have to pay for advertising and other items. Combine this with an already low cash-funding source coming in; it creates a harder issue.

I have only been able to obtain CCBILL access due to not being able to front the costs of merchant account sign ups (bad credit). Since D7 is apparently not going to support it, I can presume that it will no longer be default in the installation. I am fully aware of other options out there for dating software alternatives especially in the free arena where I once was using but moved due to Dolphin’s apparent CCBILL support. I had run a specific site for dating and needed the CCBILL support and found that Dolphin’s was apparently a lot better. I was very wrong, yet I continued to use it and have not had any luck with it. A special thank you does however go out to IgorL in attempting to fix it. While it worked well on his end, it hasn’t worked at all on my end. I know that there are other plugins that I can buy but see the paragraphs above.

UPGRADEABILITY FROM 6.x to D7:

If you take the time to search the forums, you will see that there are quite a few calls for help and clarification yet none have officially been answered by the Boonex team. Sure, I know they are working heavily and heartily on the D7 platform and structure, however none has really take the time to answer if it is going to be possible. After I examined the database structure some, it became apparent to me that D7 is a total rewrite of the database, and to simply upgrade the old to the new would require some coding and patience to convert from one format to another. Would it be hard to at least acknowledge the questions? After all, we are customers as well as users. The customer’s voice carries a long way. Just look at what happened to Circuit City in the U.S. They let customer service go, realized it to late, and sadly they are no longer around.

I am not saying that Boonex is going in the direction of Circuit City by any means, but I will say that I made several calls from Oregon USA to Australia using my home phone during regular business hours for Australia (between 7am to 5pm Australia Time), to the number listed on the bottom of the web site, and there was absolutely NO ANSWER on the phone. I didn’t mind too much though as I was only paying 2.4cents a minute thanks to having a VoIP line at the time. The reason I called was to sort out my CCBILL issue once and for all.

THERE IS NO ACTIVE SUPPORT SYSTEM:

In reference to the above, there was quite some time spent in trying to get a response from Boonex regarding the programming of the CCBILL module, the only option I had was to email (went unanswered), Phone in (went unanswered), post it in the forums (took forever to be looked at), or send a direct message to them via Twitter. None of this was effective.

I have worked in several e-commerce based companies and know that response time is essential to addressing issues from customers. If not addressed as expected, the customer moves on. There is competition out there for every single E-Commerce venture. From Copy Cats to innovative companies (as I believe Boonex wants to be), it can be brutal out there. If I was a project manager for one of these companies and in a sense I am because I have a couple of sites that I own using Dolphin, I would be giving a maximum of 72 hours and move on to another supplier. I feel that us as users are not being given the appropriate help when required in a timely manner.

There was a time that I would have whole-heartedly given an endorsement for Boonex to anyone who asked. I am not so sure of that anymore.

THE FORUM COMMUNITY IS HELPFUL BUT THEN AGAIN…

One cannot go into the forums and post a help request that is reasonable without being ignored most of the time. I challenge anyone of you reading this to seek out and find unanswered posts where the only one posting is the original poster. Maybe nobody knows the answer and can’t help, but why can’t Boonex appoint at least 1 person to read those posts and address them. I am not talking about some customer service person per se, but an actual Dolphin staff member/coder to address the issue. Sure it can be tedious but at least it is addressed.

While there is an excellent community of coders and people willing to help with the issues with Dolphin, it is disheartening to ask for help and only see the users giving vague answers or maybe full answers without the staff taking the time to address them as well.

OPEN SOURCED:

It is at this time that I have lost members due to issues and errors with my Dolphin 6.1.6 site as well as random bugs. I of course know that the source is now 100% open and we are free to modify, change and improve as we see fit, however as I told a member of Boonex recently; I can read and edit code, but can’t syntax to save my life! I am willing to bet that good portions of users are not developers. For those that have the ability to do this, so be it, why not help us syntax-challenged users?

IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, SHUT UP AND GO AWAY:

Believe me, I have thought about it, and incidently, I was actually placing a dating site up online in a market that needs one and toyed with the idea of using another popular free dating script. I instead stuck to Dolphin hoping that these things can be worked out. At the moment, I have a post out there waiting for an answer to a seemingly easy question, but has not even been addressed. Bumping it has not yielded good results.

Sure, I can move away to the other scripts and probably be very satisfied, but I do keep my loyalty where my money has been spent. I have an annual license that is established for the new site that I bought back in March of this year before the whole pricing fiasco happened. And of course, I have the lifetime license that I am keeping and even donated some very very limited cash to help Boonex out in exchange. I will not be letting go of those as I still believe there is hope out there for Boonex’s Dolphin script.

A MESSAGE TO THE BOONEX TEAM:

I simply want you to take the time to consider what is happening in the community of users through the forums. If you are not allowed to, ask your superior to grant you the time if you are so governed. It will be eye opening and enlightening.

I implore you to at least answer some of the questions regarding the upgrade from 6 to 7 and address the pressing issues rather than letting us speculate about what is going on. Silence may be golden, but we do like to hear from you folks now and then.  :)

 
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therock
Are you saying that CCbill will not be a payment module in D7? I sure hope it will as that is who I have been using for quite some time now. Buy the way medfordite credit has nothing to do with signing up for CCbill as they don't do credit checks, at least they didn't with me.
houstonlively
A little to wordy, but let me see if I can summarize.

1. You want to use CCBill with D7

2. You want to know if D6 sites can be upgraded to D7

3. You don't like the support.

4. You think Boonex isn't listening to the community.



I can't comment on payment options, because it's not something I will ever use.

Various Boonex team members have answered the D6 to D7 upgrade question on numerous occassions. They have stated that once D7 is released, some sort of upgrade procedure will see more be developed. Personally, I don't think it's a realistic expectation to call that eventuality an upgrade. I think it's going to be more of a translation of databases and media as best you can. With all the mods people have added to their D6 sites, I don't see any way on earth, how a one size fits all upgrade script can be a reality.

SUPPORT:

As far as official support, I used to think it was pretty bad too, but that was before I spent the time to learn about the Dolphin way of doing things.

I agree that there should be an official Boonex support system, but I don't think it should be freely accessible to everyone..... I don't think Boonex has any obligation to the many people that want to set up Dolphin on some POS home computer so they can have a social network with 4 of their 8th grade buddies.

I like the idea of a paid support forum for people that are serious about developing real sites on real web servers. Let everyone view these forums, but make it so that only paid subscriptions can post support questions. Every commercial script I run, requires me to pay an annual support fee. I don't think it is reasonable to expect Boonex to provide this type of service for free. I think a $30 - $40 annual support fee is reasonable.... If anyone says they can't afford that, then they are not serious about their Dolphin based web site. A few thousand people paying an annual support fee, will go a long way to cover the costs associated with direct support.

The forums are a good source of information on a lot of issues. Many people however, get tired of seeing the exact same questions asked over and over and over again... I can't blame them.... people sometimes need to learn how to better help themselves. There was one user in particular in the forums, that drove me insane. This noobie asked questions about absolutely every little thing at every turn, all day long..... it was like spoon feeding a little baby. This was a person, had I been standing next to, would have be bitch-slapped to death.


DOES BOONEX LISTEN TO THE COMMUNITY?

Yes they do.... If you present them with something that is well thought out. If you just like to complain about things while demanding that those things be fixed.... you might run into some trouble. No one like a whiner.

It has been my experience, that when you see something Boonex is doing wrong, they will listen intensely if you take the time to be clear and specific about what you feel is wrong, while also presenting well thought out ways to correct the wrong. You should never just tear something down, without presenting a plan to rebuild it better.
Your post addresses issues which I think are very important and everything you mentioned I agree with. On a side note. I was not aware that CCbill will not be used on D7, If that is the case, I will have to leave Dolphin. I asked Paypal to review my site when I finished it and was not accepted so I use CCbill and If I can´t use CCbill on D7, basicly Dolphin will not be of any use to me..I would have to make money with advertising only and I don´t want to go that route...


I´m really at a point see more where I´m reevaluating Dolphin and weather or not to move forward with them...There are just too many issues which I feel will not let me progress to where I want to take my online business. Some of those issues are the ones you mentioned, that is why I agree with you...

For the next month, I will keep my eyes open and see how Boonex progresses with D7 and make a decision. I can not wait for patches after patches after patches and spend time on each one as we all ¨¨Time lost is time gone¨¨

On another note. Boonex needs to realize that every member on here is a loyal member to them. I´ll put it in a simple way ¨¨With all issues the script has, plus adding all the other issues with it, only those loyal members are still here¨¨ Take care of them...

Just my thoughts!
Medfordite
I really don't agree with the paid support model however. Let's look at it from another point of view.

Say that Abracadabra Magic Widgets is a small company which is trouble shooting the software issues the have had with their program they bought to build their web site. Even though it was freely made available without a penny, they just don't like to reveal their secrets. So, in the fashion of magicians, they pay to keep it covered. In this case, removing the branding as lots of companies see more do for the privilege of taking the Powered by or designed by off of. Now, to get said support, they are forced to pay an annual fee for the privilege of talking to someone who is either running off of a canned answer sheet or can provide the help. Who here has called Symantic or say Microsoft for an issue with their software? First time or two, it is free, but then BAM! By the hour. Not saying this is the same model, but pretty close. Anyway, the magic company now has a choice, pay an annual fee to get support on software that should already be very well programmed or go to the internet and grab assistance.

While modmysite.com and the like do what they can to help for free, it isn't the same as getting help from the actual programmers. Instead the magic widgets company decides to toss the project and look for something new with support. IPB is one of those models that you have to buy the software so support comes with it. Same with Boonex, should follow to a point. If I PAY for a license then I should get paid support for free not be wrangled into paying for support because there are sometimes "children" asking the questions.

I disagree with the suggestion that because I don't want to pay for support that it means that I am not serious about it. In fact it is far from it.

Perhaps a connection through Getsatisfaction.com would work?

Like mickeyb I have been eyeballing other software as well and am sort of holding on, however the deciding factor is a checkout.php issue I have asked for help on, but yet to receive.
tyke
Interesting comments here, and the comments made by mickyB i knew would come up eventually,with the loyalty thing but members getting fed up too seeming waiting for a working version of dolphin, and i say that because i upgraded my 6 to the latest version which doesnt really work all that well now, so like many members i expect, we are all eager for 7 to work well, sooner rather than later, but that doesnt look like its going to happen in the very near future (weeks) but months i would expect until see more we get something we can use. So loyalty as MickyB implies, is going to get tested i think for many members now. Im lucky i guess as im in no rush, but most members are getting a little frustrated now with the situation

where the upgrade from 6 to 7 is mentioned, i really cant see how there can be a straight forward upgrade path, may be on the drawing board sure, but in the real world i cant see this happening myself what with the mess of the upgrade from 6.4 to 6.5 and then 6.6 i myself am not going to risk the headache with such a big transition, and go for a straight new install, and i cant see any other way really that is going to simply work for everybody.

i like the idea of a paid support forum, so long as there is expert support that is answering the questions on a regular basis that is, id pay for that anyday as im sure many members would. I still think there should be a free support forum though for members to use as they do the support forum now where members can help each other best they can.

Been here a while now, i do get the impression that Boonex is about the place, reading and watching, and sometimes commenting on things. What i think throws new members is that they aren't as visible as they think they ought to be, but they are here and ive noticed that they do listen to members comments about things and do try to take notice.

regards

tyke
Image the time I have spent since I found Dolphin and started working on my site, It took me ruffly 2 months to learn Dolphin enough to get my site up and running, now if D7 will not use CCbill and that is the only payment processor I can use, didn´t I just waste 2 months of my life...And if I stay with Dolphin, I´ll never be able to upgrade to D7..And if I go with a different script, now I have to put countless hours again to rebuild my site...This issue with CCbill will probaly determine weather see more I stay will Dolphin or not, I have no other choice...If I have too, I´ll use another script to build my site and reach my goals...Somehow, someway, I will reach it, therefore I can´t let issues like these get in my way...
totallyfreak
i agree... dont know why boonex still use the paypal as the main payment option for dolphin.... because paypal most of the time dont accept dating website... i told this on the blog many time from more than 1-2 year ago but they dont seam to understand that....

we need more payment gateway... and FORGET paypal!!!

alertpay is a very good alternative... alertpay is a paypal alike website and they do accept dating website and ADULT dating website!!!
tyke
i dont like paypal, dont like the monopoly they have. saying that though, paypal do accept dating sites just so long as they are straight forward dating sites like mine (yep i had to go with paypal for my subscriptions ) paypal though have a real problem with anything sexual orientated amongst other things. so i too wish we could leave paypal behind even if 90% of people do use paypal, it would be nice to have a choice built in.
The notion of Boonex providing FREE support to what is mainly a non-paying (ie they mostly got the free version of Dolphin) user base is nothing less than asking Boonex to forget business fundamentals.

So let me get this straight: people already got a free and open source Dolphin that they haven't put a single penny into. No thanks, Boonex, that's not good enough. Now you also have to provide free support to your non-paying users -- and don't forget the xx-hour turnaround time requirement that see more goes with that as well.

There's a lot of strange thinking going around here. You haven't put anything in but you expect a lot in return for that nothing?

And, finally, Boonex, if you don't play by our rules .... hmmmm, well, don't tell me I didn't warn you about the getsatisfaction.com card, my ace in the sleeve.

Medfordite, I suggest that you go directly to getsatisfaction.com and play your card. But don't be miserly with the truth when you do so. Tell them exactly the truth:

- that the $$$ you forked out was for the privilege of taking out Boonex ads from your copy of Dolphin -- it wasn't for Dolphin itself (which is free) or for Dolphin support (I'm a Contributor, too, and I know what I paid for)

- that Boonex never committed to anything more nor less than that

- that, hey, Dolphin is actually free -- you didn't pay a single cent to get it and use it

- that for the nothing you put in and the free Dolphin you already got, you also want Boonex to provide free support

- and that's why you're in getsatisfaction.com in an attempt to shame Bonnex into providing you with the free support you want

When is this gravy train mentality going to stop?

BTW, I'm baffled by all the questions about upgrading D6 to D7. I thought the whole idea for 6.1.5 and 6.1.6 (and 6.1.7?) was to address all the known issues in D6 once and for all before Boonex left it behind for good (ala Windows98 finally orphaned by Microsoft). This is the reason why new Dolphin users like me have not committed to using D6 for our sites and are, instead, (patiently) waiting for D7.
Medfordite
Tenzens - I understand your whole thinking on the "if you don't pay don't complain" and "You paid for the privilege of taking the ads off not support". I beg to differ with the last one.

Why would that be the case then with IPB or other branded software, you purchase the license to use it sure! But guess what? You also get paid support with it. What a novel idea!

I don't use getsatisfaction at all for support issues as I personally feel that companies should listen to see more their users and address issues especially if they put a forum to do such a thing!

Overall, I am glad that I am using Dolphin and feel that it has great potential (Along with just about everyone here), however - perhaps it was a bit too soon? (Speaking of D7 alpha/betas).
ydrargyros
Money spent on Dolphin products as well as various modules of 3rd party (strangely most of these modules are now D7 inhabitant...smells like rat!) exceed 1500 euros (yep euros) in a year.
Now...The fact of no personal support but only late community support (one asks a Q that other 100 have) really ain't the best support.

Fact that they gave me a permanent license for Dolphin
(will it work on 7? can i transfer it to my new domain?) really won't help so much!

We don't demand support...we say see more that if support was true, Boonex would achieve the ultraprofit their software deserves.

PS.Is it me or every company moves towards sales leaving QoS out of the big scene?
bcg2102012
It doesn't matter how much one tries to justify it, selling a product for close to $1,000, while essentially guaranteeing that it will be installed easily and be simple-to-use for those who don't have a degree in software and programming, and then abandoning them for "support" through a message board is just not good business principle.

I think it is also a little assuming to insist that users ask "well thought out" questions, when frankly, some of us don't know what to ask. see more

Boonex has a great product from what I can tell, but the product support is just plain abysmal. Hopefully my questions can get answered one day, and my experience with the company will improve.
 
 
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