Why D7 is really still a beta and should never have been released

CALTRADE posted 28th of January 2010 in Community Voice. 20 comments.

Because I like seeing what other people are doing, I have joined several D7 sites and found they are all messed up in one particular way.  These sites - including mine,  are missing a basic function that in my opinion makes them seem amateurish, and also corrupts their data. I am talking, of course, about the inability of D7 to have an empty (null) result in a multiple select field made from a pre-defined list. 

It sounds a bit academic, but the lack of this function totally screws up both the join form and the search functions, and goes to the very heart and soul of the software.  Unlike in D6, where this worked fine, on D7 if you use a predefined list on the join form, and set it as a required field, it will select whatever is on top of that list unless the member changes it.   This is such a basic database function, that it is a little shocking that it was never fixed.  Making the join form work properly should have been the highest priority of the development team, but there were major problems with the join for that remained broken throughout all the betas, while emphasis was put on non-critical modules. 

Even worse, it how this flaw affects the search function.  It is impossible to design a search with two fields.   If the user selects one of those fields, and not the other, the second field will be selected anyway, making the search worthless.  On my site I need to have a search that has a list of "industries" and a list of "trade countries" - it is key to what I am doing, and again worked just fine D6.  This is probably important to everyone here but on my site it is almost the very reason for its existence.  Without it, I probably should have just spent a half hour putting together a Ning site, instead of spending a year and a half of my life trying to make Dolphin work properly. 

It is not like this hasn't come up before.  In fact, almost everyone who reaches a certain point in the development of their site realizes this is a major problem.  Here is one thread where members here tried to gain attention to this issue, but there are several others: http://www.boonex.com/unity/forums/topic/Select-default-country-for-all-dropdown.htm#topic/Drop-Down-Menu-Select-It.htm

I tried to communicate with two different Boonex developers about this but they both tried to say that it really wasn't a problem, or that "this is just the way the software works".  Another member here told me he talked to a Boonex developer who said it would be "impossible" to fix.  Clearly, they just want this issue to go away.  A Trac report has been written on this at this linK:  http://www.boonex.com/trac/dolphin/ticket/1627

Note how the developers or someone at Boonex has tried to delete or close this report- and most recently redefined it from a "defect" to an "enhancement".  This is NOT an enhancement - it is a "mission critical flaw".  In my opinion, all work by Boonex developers on "mods" for the marketplace should be immediately stopped until this is fixed.  In fact, all mods already published by developers should be pulled, and a team should be assembled to fix it. 

While Boonex may consider the current D7 to be the "offical release" - many of the rest of us still have to call our sites "beta" because of this defect.  Please Boonex publish a patch or a minor release to fix this serious issue - your software really doesn't work without it.

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That not a bug, its a feature!
Just in case you cant tell, that is sarcasm. I fully agree with Caltrade on this. Maybe now that the "big launch" is out of the way, Boonex can concentrate on bugs and get some patches done.
I agree this is a major flaw and limits usability and what we can do. Go to any other site period that has signup forms and you will see they use these very basic features. They need to be included but I fear the problem rest with the Boonex development team mentality. They don't see it as a flaw because they literally do not understand it as a flaw. That's why I strongly urge them to hire someone experienced in end-user functions and usability. They are sorely lacking on this point and this is see more just another example, out of many, of Boonex's shortfalls.

Now, I do think Boonex has some of the best community software on the market, but it's these little, major issues that gives people pause in using Dolphin softare.
Well, I recall there was a huge issue in so many bashing Boonex because D7 wasn't released in stable version yet that it was turning into a war around here basically. Perhaps had some been more patient then they wouldn't of gotten more of they wanted less of what they didn't want.
Mydatery - you missed the point. I could care less what they call it. If this was still called "a beta" but with that function working, that would have been fine with me. I just went to look at your site and it seems you only have 8 members and are using the standard join form - so maybe it isn't an issue with you, but it is for many of us.
There is a difference between wanting D7 released out the door and Boonex not seeing what Rob posted as a basic necessity. As it stands now, Boonex developers don't see anything wrong with the selection system which is the issue Rob is trying to draw attention.
I agree

we need a function like this module with ajax - multi-level


in : join - People - Search - online - Quick Search

all dating sites on this feature -

essential for multi-language site - or - for sites like caltrade

and even better if there was this function
create /event - events/search - create/groups - groups/search - create /ads - ads/search
You know Rob, considering you just looked at a test domain (which is what mydatery has been for almost a year) and it is NOT a D7 site I don't see how that applies.

Now, I'm the one the has pushed with you for this along with Dependent Pre-Defined Values which you are way to amateurish to comprehend the usefulness of. I stand behind what I said previously. Certain individuals screamed, yelled and cursed that Boonex had not released a stable version that it was insane. I won't even mention the see more person who whined on a daily basis in regards to no upgrade paths between beta versions about deleting/reinstalling D7 test systems.

And I understand completely what your saying Mauricecano, I'm just pointing out that had certain people not been so adament about getting D7 released then Boonex might of taken more time to consider some things. Instead, we're all stuck trying to find a way to develop these items now.
Well, since you are obviously trying to insult me with words like "screaming and "whining" and "cursing" because I wanted an upgrade path between betas, and now calling my opinions "amateurish"- that is off-the-scale rude. I am not going to stoop to your level by throwing insults back at you, but don't misrepresent what I am saying. I NEVER was "adament" that D7 get "released" - I never cared what they called anything - everytime you lie see more about what I have said I will call you out on it. I will say just one thing though that you should know- - you have and EXTREMELY overblown opinion of your own value to this community. Unlike what you did, I am making this as a comment to your comment - not posting this as the main body of this thread. I don't have time for drama like you do, and since this is not an issue that is important to you, I ask that you just move on.
This sort of issue should be so dead easy to code. Go figure? I'd like to hear that developer explain how it is impossible to fix it. Maybe it's impossible to find the relevant section from amidst all that code? If this feature is coded halfway sane, it should not require changes to more than three to five areas in the code at the utmost.
Not only that CodSatori, but this stuff worked just fine in D6 - they must still have the code - or at least code that could be modified to make this happen. Welcome back by the way, we have missed you.
Now Robbie, where did I ever say that "You" were "screaming" and "whining"? I don't even recall saying that "You" were adamant about a stable release of D7. I do recall saying "certain individuals" but I never named names. That would be very impolite of me and we all know that I am much more polite than that now.

As far as importance goes, this is important to me, as are many other things. However, I tend to find ways to overcome obstacles see more that are in my way, especially those that are obstacles in the way of my professional endeavors, than to follow the paths of those who choose to just sit back and wait for someone else to develop what is in the way.

Whether your a coder or not, you can easily find a means to bypass this.

Profile Splitter (That would make some fields apply, some not apply and still permit mandatory. Cost is $150 and Anton will install it)
Dependent Fields (Turns items on and off based on prior answers)
Inserting a None Selected Field into each PDV

Those are solutions you can consider in the event that you don't have the ability to code around this item yet in D7. Now, I know you know how to code, so the only issue here is either time or simply learning the system well enough to do it.

Final note, please don't read things into what I write. I'm not directly accusing anyone of anything here.
Alex, thank you for responding, but why did you post this? It doesn't seem to contain any useful information and really doesn't make sense. Also, "step 3" - which would be the important part, seems to be missing. Are you in the process of editing this? Here is what is in that post right now:

This is instruction om how to create a field on join form with 'Not Specified' or 'Select it' as first element in drop down box.

It will ask user to select some value see more instead of some preselected value, which one user even not noticed.

1. create predefined list:

2. Create the following field on join form:

4. Test the result:

As you see - I can not submit a form without selecting this field - it gives me error message
Perhaps the Boonex staff mods are but one reason certain modules do not work the way they should. If you look at D7 you can see what I mean. I have posted about this before (re D6) but those posts were quickly removed, as this one probably will be.
Post was corrected: http://www.boonex.com/unity/forums/topic/HOWTO-create-join-form-field-with-Not-Specified-.htm
Alex, again thank you for responding, but I don't think that approach will work. It looks like this may be a way to force people to enter a value, but all you have done is add a new field to the predefined values table with a value of "0" (zero). Zero is not a null value - it is an actual value of zero. That means when you try to create a search form with this, it will be searching for that "zero" value.

So if you have a search with two fields - lets say "hair color" see more and "eye color" to use your example. You want to find members with brown hair, but you don't care about eye color so you select "brown" for hair color but leave "not selected" for eye color. This will search the database for "brown hair" and the actual value of "not selected" (zero). Using your approach, this will not return any results- the query will be looking for members with brown hair AND "o" (not selected) but since "not selected" is not null - it is an actual value, there won't be any members with both those fields so the search won't work. Please let me know if there is something I don't understand here.
I choose dolphin to make a dating site and after the update that fixes many bugs i found out that i cant create new kind off profiles and i have to find someone to pay him extra to make me the new options of profiles plus to fix the bugs that they will be created because of it.
I don't understand why the staff can't make available modifications like this for free, as they sound like basic functionality that should have been included to begin with.

How about doing a poll on the biggest gripes your users have and straightening them all out in an update release? Moving on to new ventures before the current product satisfies the needs of its primary target group can only lead to one thing in the long run.
Alex has solved this issue, as described on this link: http://www.boonex.com/unity/forums/#topic/HOWTO-create-join-form-field-with-Not-Specified-.htm

It was 2 lines of code. Thanks to everyone who supported this effort.
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