Dolphin 7 And Dolphin 8 Definitive Guidance

Andrew Boon posted 20th of September 2011 in Dolphin.pro News. 41 comments.

BoonEx is working on Dolphin 8 and on Dolphin 7 simultaneously. Occasionally we release Dolphin 7 updates and some news about Dolphin 8 development progress. It may be easy to get confused into thinking that Dolphin 7 is an "outgoing" version that would not be supported and that Dolphin 8 would render any efforts or expenditures related to Dolphin 7 worthless. This is not the case at all. In this note we are spelling out our plans and current steps for everyone to understand that Dolphin 7 is a safe and smart choice now - the choice you wouldn't regret making when Dolphin 8 comes out.

1. Dolphin 8 is an evolution of Dolphin 7.

As I have noted before, "we are not going to build a new house or just make up the old one - we're renovating". We had an all-new platform in works for many years, but decided to scrap it and improve existing one instead. Dolphin 8 was initially planned to be called Dolphin 7.1, but we decided to dig deeper into its guts and call it Dolphin 8 when it's ready.

Again, 8 is a feature update. It's not an all-new platform. It will definitely look and work differently, but we're working hard to leave everything that's good and get rid of anything that's not good enough.

2. Most extensions will not require major re-write.

Dolphin 8 will bring a better support for 3rd party modules, templates and languages. There're some very exciting changes being made, but still, in most cases those extensions would require only minor adaptation to be operational in Dolphin 8. Some will just work.

We plan to start working closely with developers a couple of months before the release. New Market policies will encourage developers to provide free or discounted updates for their clients. There will be a strong "business incentive" for developers to comply.

3. Dolphin 7 will be supported for at least 2 years.

Current version of Dolphin is packed with numerous features. It also has hundreds of extensions made for it in the Market. It will surely take some time for Dolphin 8 to catch up and become a 100% alternative. Moreover, there are thousands of sites running on Dolphin 7 and thousands of web-masters not willing to make major changes. So, if you choose Dolphin 7 now, be sure that BoonEx will be releasing service updates for it every 2-3 months for period of at least 2 years after full release of Dolphin 8, and likely beyond that. Not only Dolphin 8 will be a less-of-hassle in terms of version upgrade than you might expect from a "new" platform, but also you would have plenty of time to prepare for the switch.

4. There will be a set of data-migration tools.

If you like Dolphin 7 and if you're intrigued by Dolphin 8, there's no reason to hold off. You will be given scripts and instructions for moving your media, content and members from Dolphin 7 to Dolphin 8.

5. You will not lose your money.

We have a very different vision of Dolphin 8 pricing and Market policies. Just as we did with other changes before, if you buy something from us now, you will be getting a better-value deal for Dolphin 8, whatever the policy is to be. Naturally, you'll be getting a free upgrade, but we will also make sure that your other expenses would turn into a smart and timely investment.

6. There's a good chance that Dolphin 7 would live on.

Dolphin 8 and Dolphin 7 difference may easily justify further support of both, if there's a market for them. You many know the Joomla story… they have their v1.5 living for many years despite higher versions progressing from 1.6 to 1.7 already. It just so happened that 1.5 still remains a platform of choice for enough people to keep it alive. This is VERY likely scenario for Dolphin 7 and 8 as well. We would only kill 7 if everyone forgets about it, which is unlikely.

7. Even before Dolphin 8 release there will be more updates of Dolphin 7.

We only have two developers working on Dolphin 8 and still participating in Dolphin 7 with others. There will be feature updates, service updates and security updates to Dolphin 7 even before Dolphin 8 is out.

8. Repeat: Dolphin 7 will live on as a core of Dolphin 8.

I have to stress your attention on this point again. We're not building a new software. We're vastly improving Dolphin 7. It's not a revolution, it's a natural progression. The only difference between previous version upgrades and Dolphin 8 is that we decided to do it without cutting corners. Use Dolphin 7 at its fullest now and build your community site. Once Dolphin 8 is here you would be able to consider an upgrade or continue using Dolphin 7. If you would decide to upgrade, you would have all the tools to do it.

 
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theguypc
Any time frames for either version yet? I've been watching trac and it seems like nothing has changed for quite some time - save shuffling bugs from one version to another.

I think supporting both is a great idea. I'm a little surprised you left D6 out of the equation, but I suppose most have moved on from that by now. It was a pretty good platform though & (I thought) worthy of getting the remaining issues fixed.

Anyway, this post is good news IMHO. Thanks Andrew.
can you please make a demo version ?
fewbee
That's nice news any time frame @ Mr Andrew Boon


plz put demo of dolphin 8

M Faheem Jutt
Nathan Paton
I've been creating personal demo sites, but it's far too early. The code is still very broken, and you can't even get past the installation without needing to make changes. I don't mean this to be insulting, it's just that parts are being overhauled, which means the code right now looks like a building in the middle of renovation. It's interesting to look at, but you don't want to work there until the work's done.

It's best to wait.
fewbee
HUH
any way give me your site link
and
yes you are right

just wait and waste .................................;)
Nathan Paton
I run the demos on a local server. You're welcome to download the latest code and install it yourself, but be ready to do some extra work.
newton27
how would one download the latest code and install? Are you speaking of D8?
Nathan Paton
Yes. You can download the latest code from the repository.

See: http://www.boonex.com/forums/topic/Developers-Links.htm

You'll need Subversion installed, or download the code as a ZIP archive through the tracker.
sadel
Thanks for this info.

Please make a demo of D8 :)
JoeWa
We look forward to Dolphin 8 with great anticipation. Keep up the good work.
Abs
The main question is when Dolphin 8 will be ready for us? This year, Next year or when so ever?
DosDawg
quite the turn around from the previous post where you were scrapping dolphin 7, you were scrapping Trident, and you were going to build an all new, all better, fully functional bug-free Dolphin 8.

so from the looks of what is posted, vague in its presentation, as are most of these blurbs, you have no time-frame for any updates scheduled for release on Dolphin 7, and it appears there is no working time-frame on Dolphin 8?

so all the bugs that got pushed to Dolphin 8, when are these going see more to be addressed?
Andrew Boon
Please, re-read the previous posts and you will find that I have repeated over and over and over that we are not scrapping Dolphin 7.

http://www.boonex.com/n/finish-what-we-started-or-move-on - this post is all about it. I find it hard to explain it more clearly. We scrapped Trident, and we work on Dolphin 7 - we work SO hard that we think we can call it Dolphin 8 when we finish.

As for time-frames, we do have them but there's no way we're announcing any. If you only care about time and need see more an upgrade at certain point in time - feel free to download and use latest builds from SVN.

Dolphin 7.0.8 and Dolphin 8 will be released as soon as they are ready.
DosDawg
andrew, i just posted what was stated. you claimed there were 6 updates finishing Dolphin 7, and that continuing updates could go on forever. I did read, i read it when you posted it. I was one of the ones begging and pleading that you at least finish Dolphin 7.

it was your statements that stated, clearly and not from guessing, but clearly stated that you were not developing for Dolphin 7 any longer. Then with an uproar from the community, it was realized that announcement was a bad idea, and see more you released Dolphin 7.0.7.

you scrapped Trident after 3 years of holding the community in limbo, waiting on your NBT, then you drop in and announce we are scrapping Trident, we are scrapping Dolphin 7.1, we are building new, and this is going to be great. That was your announcements.

that was from 100+ days ago. at any rate, if you want to post and divert the focus elsewhere, then its your blog, and your site.

but the truth of the matter is you, and you alone, stated that Dolphin 7 development would cease.
DosDawg
Andrew Boon
112 days ago in Dolphin Development
Tags: dolphin, sundance, dolphin8, development
Reactions: 78 comments •0 points•0 reports
Sundance - The First Dolphin 8
It is shaping up to become the biggest and the most important Dolphin version update we have ever had. In recent weeks we realised that it is so grandiose that even updates to 6 and to 7 pale in comparison. Hence, we scrapped 7.1 and we scrapped Trident in favor of Dolphin 8 - Sundance.

"Hence we scrapped 7.1 and see more we scrapped Trident in favor of Dolphin 8" this was after you said there would be no more releases on 7.0.x. so as you see, this is where the community would have gathered that 'you' were the source of news, of scrapping Dolphin 7, though you mention 7.1 as being scrapped on this particular post, but you had already said you were done developing on Dolphin 7.0. as you had released 6 upgrades.

anywho, thats where the information came from. i noticed you inquired of HL where he got that information, and predicated that statement by him being deceived, and it wasnt by you.

hmmm...............................
Andrew Boon
I am talking about numbers only there and I specifically explained that "scrapped Dolphin 7.1" only means that we'll call it 8.0 instead of 7.1 as planned, because we're improving it more than planned. 8.0 is your 7.1.

Anyway, let me reiterate - 8.0 is a "much improved 7", and there will be many more 7.0.x updated over the next 2 years.
DosDawg
First of all, want to say great, that it has been your decision to complete Dolphin 7 and follow it through to the end. This is all that was asked for, is that you complete one version get it as stable as possible, then move on into the next level of development.

Though, your supposition "I am talking about numbers only there", again is misleading. Here is why, as we all sat waiting on bugs to be fixed, they would be slotted for this version or that version. Most everything it seemed see more was being targeted to Dolphin 7.1 according to Trac. Thus with your announcement that you were scrapping 7.1, that absolutely states that all bugs that had been reported for Dolphin 7.0, and were scheduled for Dolphin 7.1, would no longer come to pass. That stated, you had already mentioned that you were not developing on or for Dolphin 7.0 any longer, that you had released 6 updates, and there were no plans to continue developing on 7.0. So when all things that were reported for 7.0 and scheduled for Dolphin 7.1, then we anxiously awaited 7.1, only to wake up one day and realize your new found plan was to scrap Dolphin 7.1 for the new and improved Dolphin 8.

Maybe the term mislead was under a different definintion at some juncture, but typically when you say you are scrapping something, that means you are done with it, its going in the garbage can, its no longer of any use.

Andrew, as i sit here thinking about this, i am not raising this concerns to cause dispute, but just trying to figure it all out. There was great debate following this announcement literally begging you to finish Dolphin 7. So if you are now on the path to completing Dolphin 7, then that is great. That is what the community asked for.

The underlying fact of the matter, is the announcement to 'scrap Dolphin 7' was something you provided. and at that time, there was no this is in number only iteration.

but to no end, glad you are deciding to complete Dolphin 7 while you build Dolphin 8.
UnderDog4All
WOW! Now this is something I really loved hearing. This is very, very relieving news and very well outlined! Thanks Andrew- this helps much of the confusion I was experiencing.
5. You will not lose your money.

We have a very different vision of Dolphin 8 pricing and Market policies. Just as we did with other changes before, if you buy something from us now, you will be getting a better-value deal for Dolphin 8, whatever the policy is to be. Naturally, you'll be getting a free upgrade, but we will also make sure that your other expenses would turn into a smart and timely investment. ,DOES THIS MEAN WE ARE NOT GOING WASTE MODS OF DOLPHIN 7 OR WHAT BECAUSE RIGHT NOW AM see more AFRIAD OF BUYING MORE MODS NOW BECAUSE I DONT TO END WASTING MY MONEY AND TO Andrew Boon WHY DO AVOID ANSWERING THIS QUESTION,WHEN WILL DOLPHIN 8 BE OUT? BIG ONE ANSWER IT MAN
Nathan Paton
You should never expect mods (which modify core files) to work with the next version. You are making changes to core files, and the developers don't have to respect those changes.

I make changes myself, but I always keep track of all changes in a repository, and modify any patches before applying them. It's time-consuming, but it works. I've noticed most people mindlessly apply mods, and that never ends well. I have no sympathy for them.

That said, Andrew states the following in his post:

"Dolphin see more 8 will bring a better support for 3rd party modules, templates and languages. There're some very exciting changes being made, but still, in most cases those extensions would require only minor adaptation to be operational in Dolphin 8. Some will just work."

He's probably referring to modules, which should be the encouraged method of extending Dolphin. I expect some mods to continue working, but most will probably need an update from the developer (and the same with some modules). v8 is based on v7, but there's still a lot of changes being made.

You don't need to rush ahead with v8. Andrew has said that v7 will continue to be supported as long as needed.

The release date? The tracker shows the milestone's deadline as 11/11/11, but that's for development purposes. Andrew has stated that they have release dates, but they aren't announced publicly. I can only recommend you follow the latest changes.
DosDawg
and according to information i got, you should never expect core elements that were working on a version, to continue to work on the next version. when a release is brought to the public, not only should it portray what is new and flashy, but what was taken out?

yall remember 'chicks for free' v-6 (removed) later added in the market for purchase

yall remember recurring payments for memberships v-6 (removed) later added as a module in the market for purchase.

so never presume what worked see more in one version to work on the next version, not only when considering 3rd party modules, but also considering core elements.
mlangdon
For those that want to venture in Dolphin 8 when it releses, are there going to be restrictions on what version of Dolphin 7 we can upgrade from? I hope not. My vote is the upgrade scripts should support moving from any of the released versions of 7.
Nathan Paton
You'll probably need to upgrade to the latest version of v7 at the time of v8's release.
flirt2us
i think this make a lot of sense. we see and compare
silverado350
Are there any plans to do a major remodel on the forum module? The forum has long been a big negative for me and many others as well. And as a result we've had to seek alternative solutions. It would be nice to have it packed with more functions and features like some of stand alone scripts, phpBB, VB, etc.. As it is now if you want to post an image you can not select an image or video from your albums, you have to upload it or use the URL for the media. From a user s point this really sucks. I see more would like to see it use a hook system that would make it easy to add third party add on's. A GUI for template edits would also be good.
SonicBoomDrillon
To be honest one of the most needed fixes is that bloody store "market place" the store that comes with the site blows peppermint sticks. Not to mention no one seems to be trying to make a be3tter 3rd party module of the store. I know I am not alone in this. many dolphin sites seem to take the store off all together because well plain and simple it SUCKS!

same goes for the former affiliate system. just now are developers creating a third party system to offer affilaiteships on our sites see more again. I beleave this should be a default feature as it was in D6.

Further more I would like to see the site use UUID rather then the UID or ID system.
clubbeyourself
Can I get some information on an old post from 08.08.08, Today we're giving out unlimited number of full (paid) licenses of the Next Big Thing. It's not available yet, but it surely will be available soon. http://www.boonex.com/n/08_08_08_

What is considered to be the NBT these days, Is it Dolphin 8?

Also will current licenses be valid for Dolphin 8 when released or do they only support up to Dolphin 8?

Thanks Guys.
Nathan Paton
That post is from 2008.

Licenses are not version-specific; they will continue to work.
clubbeyourself
Thanks Nathan, I know very well that the post was form 2008. If you read the whole thing then anybody that commented on there was promised a free license for the Next Big Thing, Just curious what is classed as The next Big Thing with Boonex these days, if indeed there is anything using that title. A lot has happened since 08.08.08 so wanted to see what Boonex has to say about it. Thanks for chiming in though. Hopefully Boonex will also.
Nathan Paton
v7, which was the "next big thing" back then. He's referring to the major versions (unless he was referring to Poseidon/Trident, which used to be the base of v8). As for free permanent licenses, I remember receiving one around that time. I don't remember leaving a comment, though.
clubbeyourself
The free licenses that were issued around that time were part of a different special promotion, Boonex asked people to make a donation and no matter what the donation issued a license.
CALTRADE
Please, please don't give up on Dolphin 7 yet - you are no where near finished, and on many features, it still hasn't caught up with Dolphin 6. Half the pages still don't have page builders, and we don't have any of those great functions for fields we had in Dolphin 6. Many of the search functions still don't work properly (the null field issue). Just tonight I realized I can't easily resize a text area like I could on D6, so will now have to mess with modifying code. I know how much you love see more working on "the next big thing" but at the rate this is going, that will take decades and everyone will have failed by then. Please keep Dolphin 8 as one of your "twenty percent" projects maximum, and try to finish D7 so that it is the best in the market.
DosDawg
caltrade,
i think what is needed is a definded list of what you know of that is not working.. i posted a list of what i knew not to function, and the forum thread was closed, and i was told that is the way it is.

so i think the more information that is provided, the better it can be assessed. i have issues with voting and voting tracking on the polls. that has been broken since v-7 was released.
Andrew Boon
Dolphin 7 will be supported, updated, fixed, and improved for a long time, well beyond D8 release.
DosDawg
well glad to hear you are supporting dolphin 7 'for a long time' though, is that really a valid time period? if you have an EOL on Dolphin 7, then we would appreciate the approximation. SInce as you know Dolphin 6 died in a ball of flames, after many had worked for 2-3 years getting that platform partially working. waiting on the promise of fixes that were needed, then it just ended, and any mention of dolphin 6, would be referenced to upgrading to Dolphin 7. I know you mentioned once before in a see more post that Dolphin 7 would carry on for at least 2 years, is that still within the realms of what you think we can expect for an EOL announcement?
jtadeo
I still have a few D6 sites that I am maintaining and several flavors of D7 with custom code (with some I am currently grappling with). The introduction of modules in Dolphin 7 was a very good idea and like Joomla, it was one of the things that has contributed to its longevity. You are right about Joomla 1.5, I have few of those sites as well. There are a lot of innovative things being created with D7 in the background that is currently stretching the limits of its core, so I am looking forward see more to Dolphin 8. Thanks for the news Andrew.
picman
I wait Dolphin 8 demo
 
 
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