Products and vendors with active disputes to be exposed.

Andrew Boon posted 7th of December 2011 in Boonex News. 46 comments.

As a protective measure in BoonEx Market we added a new feature that will allow Moderators to mark products as "Under Dispute" with a link to dispute topic in Forums.  When a product is under dispute both vendor and the product pages will display a bold red banner warning about an ongoing dispute. Clients would be able to evaluate situation and make more educated decisions. 

Vendors would be forced to settle disputes as quickly as possible, however moderators would be able to make their own judgements on whether the warning must be lifted before the end of the dispute (such as in cases when vendors cooperate, but clients don't).

 

 
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DRautenbach
Thank you Mr Boon for listening and having the courage to take action on this subject. I hope this proves fruitful for Boonex and your license holders. It is a first brave step, which if implemented correctly, should improve the current situation within the market and customer service. Any chance of compulsory beta test / approval yet???
UnderDog4All
I totally second that- "a brave step" and "courage" were my first gut responses when I read this post...
tomakali
Good.
But... Please hurry on the D8 development.
https://github.com/diaspora/diaspora is gaining popularity with high activity.
Nathan Paton
You're talking about source activity, which is how active the development process is. I can be the sole developer of a product and still have a high source activity, but have no users. But this doesn't mean Diaspora has no users. Indeed, there has been a lot of press coverage, and plenty of spores launched.

But I don't think Dolphin needs to worry about Diaspora, because both provide different features and require different setups. Dolphin can run on a shared server with minimal effort, while see more Diaspora requires Ruby.

I'm not slamming Diaspora, though. It's a great project, and I really enjoy using it and watching it progress.
tomakali
source activity or not, Diaspora is ahead of D8. Even the alpha build looks very promising. its slick, very simple and clear to the point "social activities" people will love that. i, like others dream alot about D8 being phenomenal [meaning, simple,fast,super,very fast, w/o flash, api, applications, games etc]
mastermindsro
Everything "exposed" is like a trial before the television.. nothing good comes out of this.. It should only be dealt between the developer, client and moderators and product taken down/suspended if needed.. One thumb down from me. What if the developer has no fault but he is loosing clients as long as that icon appears and the product is in "dispute"? Bad idea..

Once again I say, take envato marketplaces as your model..
UnderDog4All
Your response sounds a bit biased...sorry I mean no disrespect here, but I think Boonex is taking a step toward allowing accountability to be worked back into a system that has not grown in a very unfavorable direction over time....not so favorable for the vulnerable new comer that is. I do have a suggestion that comes to mind here- The BBB (Better Business Bureau)in America goes so far as to both post the outstanding number of complaints but further has a rating chart and statement something like see more "This business has a good reputation of resolving issues with clients." It seems the BBB also goes as far as to measure risk. Boonex has tried to address this even but from what I've seen, most developers don't much care about providing potential clients with that sort of information. I like when a vendor goes so far as to mention the risk of installing their mods and mention things such as "XX core files modified"; it lets me know they are willing to give me the straight -up ahead of time. Those are the guys I look forward to doing business with. Dare I say maybe these things wouldn't have got to this point if the courtesy list had been better adopted by vendors? Boonex gets both thumbs up from me on this one.
mastermindsro
Why should a vendor's image be damaged before a conclusion is taken? In the court for example no one puts a tag on your head saying "warning this person may be a thief", and they only have a complaint from a random guy.. That doesn't sound too well.. Two thumbs down.
Zarcon
Thats exactly why I made my post here. There needs to be more definition to the word 'dispute'. Speaking on behalf of Moderators, I do not know of any of us that rush right out and take actions on anyone for a single random complaint. However, multiple complaints do justify taking action and giving other members a Warning before purchasing a product that is currently being disputed. In all disputes, both parties are given the option to resolve/respond to the complaint at hand.
UnderDog4All
agreed...and 2 thumbs up for moderators....often a thankless job I feel. Respect.
UnderDog4All
I had to chuckle here man- You evidently have an excellent judicial system in your country...Here- Innocent Until Proven Guilty are merely words these days... Perhaps a system that shows the complaint is from a "newbie"...that is the "random guy" you speak of correct? How about a number system that reveals how many complaints the "random guy" has filed maybe? It seem at least we've opened the door to explore a solution here. I think the mass majority is going to be in see more favor here....Consumers need protection, or this business simply cant grow to it's potential. Boonex has a superior solution...Vendors will be fine if they stand strong, back their product, and show integrity.
Zarcon
Hey Andrew,
I like the idea of this, but I have a few questions regarding what qualifies a dispute. Also, just to make sure I understand properly, this 'Under Dispute' will display in the members Profile AND Product page? Here are a few questions I have:

- If a member purchases a product, has problems/errors trying to install it, and is not getting a response from the developer for support.. Is that grounds for a dispute?
- With the above said, does 'communication' between the developer and see more purchaser in any way constitute grounds for a dispute?
- I personally do not think a member can start a dispute for a product that does not work properly due to other 3rd party modules installed. Do you agree?
- There should be a set time period before a member can initiate a refund for a product purchased. Example, if a member purchase a product, product is failing for whatever reason, the member should have to wait at least XX days before submitting to PayPal (example) for a refund. How many days do you think that should be?
- As said above, the developer should be held responsible to respond to emails/forums from purchasers regarding assistance with installation and/or errors that renders the product or site non-functioning. Do you agree? If so, what should the response time be?

I have some more, but will start with those questions.
Nathan Paton
Here's the way I see it:

1) The developer should only be at fault if the product is faulty (i.e., the errors are because there is a mistake in the SQL statement, which is the fault of the developer), or if they promised to provide installation support when purchasing the product. I do think all developers should be required to support their products, though, but a dispute should only be considered when the problem is actually because of the developer, not the customer.

2) You'll have to explain see more this one.

3) This would fall under a problem that was caused by the customer, not the developer. But it does raise some interesting questions. Developers should state any known incompatibilities with other products. I think there should also be an option to list a product as either a module (no core file changes), mod/modification (core file changes), or template. Purchasing a mod should display a warning that the product may not be compatible with other mods.

4) I don't think a customer should immediately file a refund request. The only people who should be doing that are those bottom-feeders who rip-off developers, and those lot should be permanently suspended with their IP blocked. I would wait at least three days to give the developer time to respond to any questions/requests for support.

5) I usually give developers at least three days to respond to problems (respond, not to actually fix the problem), more if it's the weekend. If the problem is their fault, and not the customer, they should be held responsible to fix all problems, or provide a refund and discontinue selling the product. I want to give developers ample time to respond, but also need to think of the customers and potential customers involved.

Here's an after-thought: Products which are faulty and do not even install should not be allowed to remain for sale, and should be hidden until the problem is fixed. Keeping these products available will only hurt people.
presscon
Great move, although I respect and understand Zarcons comments. So the moderators have to review the case prior to it being "marked" as under dispute.

Andrew, what about companies which claim to be your development partners or ones that have a seal which state they are Boonex Official Partners? What if they too have not delivered on their promises and short changed the user? How will you deal with those cases?
Nathan Paton
I can only understand a moderator marking a product right after a dispute if there was a large number of people involved (i.e., a lot of people are taking part in the dispute, or there are a lot of reports or negative reviews for the products involved). But it's also more likely that the product will be hidden in such severe cases, so marking will probably only be used for situations where developers need a push, but the situation isn't as severe.

I'm not Andrew, so I can't speak for him, but see more if a partner is causing problems, you should probably contact BoonEx directly, either through a message/email or ticket.
presscon
Hi Nathan;

I did, I sent an email directly to Andrew a few days ago, but of course there is no response. Did I expect one? I was hoping for one, yes. Will I get one? Not sure now that 2 days have already passed.
Nathan Paton
It's the weekend. Don't expect a response until the new week starts.
presscon
We shall wait and see. I will not hold my breath though.
silverado350
This is best news I've heard in a long time. I'm sure most of the developers will have to deal with a dispute or two or three. I don't understand why some are giving this a thumbs down, anyone with a half a brain knows that sometimes no matter how hard you try you just can't please every customer. But this... this will work over time and make the true professionals shine and lazy cheating slackers stand out so we don't wast our time and money on them. I cant wait to see who those repeat offenders see more are.
abrahamlim
Another thumbs up. I don't post often because I don't have any problems, but just recently after having to upgrade to 7.0.8 and migrate to another host, I've noticed the some market vendors have gotten really lax. I've waited for five days after payment for services and nothing. Also purchasing products that are unavailable for download after payment. If things keep going this way, I'm going to have to move on to an alternative platform. Integration of modules is useless without somewhat professional see more support.
freakpower
Thanks Andrew,this is without doubt very good step forward
Hello Andrew boon,
I think you should have some time lines setup for Developers to provide service, They just sell their MODS and disappear don't even bother about installation or service. Most of them treat customers like "crap". I have had the experience with not one but many Mod Developers, I almost gave up on Dolphin. Examples MODZZZ, He is a total scam , he made great promises before I bought his mods once he had my money he just gave me a slip and never responded to my requests. see more Banned me from posting feedback. You should target such people and have a penality mechanism in place. Dolphin is a great piece of work but if there is no support than any product will fall flat.
freakpower
strange ..from forum feedback modzz seems like one of most supportive devs here, so Im qite surprised for what u saying...
UnderDog4All
I'll second that...I see Modzz as one of the more active Devs, so may be very busy at times, but he's constantly listening to feedback and pumping out good mods for the community. You serve as many as he does, and there are bound to be a few that slip through the net...I think he has a great track record...his services have certainly met my needs.
Nathan Paton
Developers do not have to provide installation service, unless such service was agreed upon when purchasing the product.

If a developer isn't supporting their product, or is causing some sort of problem, you should contact a moderator (disclaimer: I'm a moderator) or administrator. You can also report the purchased products, or file a dispute in the forums. But posting a comment here isn't one of those solutions.
nikoma
This is a great step. This is really just product liability and so you can be held responsible for your products and your products functionality. How can that be anything but great? Keep your clients happy and avoid a red banner. Ever tried to buy a module, can't get it to work, ask for help and then advised to buy some sort of service in order to receive help? See, that is not product liability. This initiative is great!
In principal the idea is great but it doea raise the question of a public hearing which is not a good business trend. Better, in my opinion, post a dispute is ongoing, then to resolve the case first, and then publish the result.
Nathan Paton
I don't disagree with you. I would prefer disputes be handled behind closed doors, possibly using the ticket system's code. Public disputes do put more pressure on both developers and moderators to quickly and properly resolve the dispute, though.

I'm ignoring those situations where things blow up in our (the moderators') faces, of course.
modloaded
Great idea..but please study it more and more to be fair on both parties..
Nathan Paton
You won't be seeing products marked right after a dispute. The only reason a moderator should be marking a product is if the developer fails to respond, or doesn't respond adequately to an identified problem.

Edit: I should clarify that failure to respond doesn't mean not responding within a single day. I usually wait at most three days (more if it's the weekend) before taking action.
Hi Sir,
some of them verry smart. every day responding one time(start now) .. but not fix the problem... for my problem now almost 2years. how about this?
Nathan Paton
If you're having a problem with a developer, you can either post a dispute, or contact a moderator or administrator. I am a moderator, so you can contact me.
Excellent I was just hoping u did something like this.
i have brought a few modules and had been suffering because of them....

from now on i know i will get justice...
Lots of hugs & good wishes boonex
dante1962
Hello,
This is one of the best things that could happen. Thank you!
Diddy
I think vendors should have to fill the following forms completely before posting a product. Its all there :-)
add a few lines :-)
Support provided via: FORUM,PHONE,EMAIL,SKYPE within 24 hours: not specified
Support provided via: FORUM,PHONE,EMAIL,SKYPE within 3 days: not specified
Support provided via: FORUM,PHONE,EMAIL,SKYPE within a week: not specified

and take out Support provided via: FORUM,PHONE,EMAIL,SKYPE: not specified. If more than a week need for support it hurts :-)

Required
Version: see more 1.0.2
Compatibility: Dolphin 7.0.x
License: not specified

Etiquette :-)
Remote calls: not specified
All the code is legally distributed: not specified
Package has no executable files or viruses: not specified
Code encrypted: not specified
3rd-party integrations: not specified
Readme file included and formatted according to BoonEx Requirements: not specified
Admin Manual: not specified
User Manual: not specified
Installation via Dolphin Installer: not specified
Installation requires manual steps: not specified
The following number of core files require manual modification: not specified
Product is packaged and named according to BoonEx Requirements: not specified
Default CSS styles are used: not specified
Standard Pages/DesignBoxes/Inputs/Buttons are not affected/copied: not specified
CSS/HTML code isn't hardcoded in PHP and separated in HTML/CSS files: not specified
Strings are translatable and English language file is included: not specified
Support provided via: FORUM,PHONE,EMAIL,SKYPE: not specified
Response time: not specified
Timezone: not specified
The mod going to be updated with every Dolphin release: not specified
Free upgrade with every major version: not specified
Free upgrade with every minor version: not specified

Thanks for your time :-)
blackvault
Good! Great new feature. Please try this out on my dispute, still ongoing. I think ue30 is scamming people out of money - then trying to get them to pay more to get the features they want. Here is the dispute thread: http://www.boonex.com/forums/#topic/User-ue30-Revoked-license-I-PAID-for.htm and here is the product in dispute.... http://www.boonex.com/m/PRO_EVENTS_D7_MOD Buyers BEWARE! Don't buy from this user.
Nathan Paton
I never updated the topic, but the dispute was ruled in favor of the defendant. You initiated the dispute with the payment processor, which means you lost all right to the product.

But I did make it clear that you should have either currency or product. I sent you a message to make sure either one of those happened.
blackvault
No, neither has happened.... I'm still waiting for my refund.
Nathan Paton
I sent you another message. Please respond to that.
siar007
Hi Andrew are you gone have any Xmas specials on the licenses.....please :)
Papik
I think could be a good idea just if it is WELL IMPLEMENTED.
What If a vendor has sold hundreds of products working fine and then just one customer has problems and open a dispute ?
First of all, there must be some kind of "right judgements" of what is to be considered a fair dispute...
That will take time and is not easy to do it well...
 
 
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