Agents are drowned in "not found" requests

IgorL posted 18th of January 2010 in Community Voice. 29 comments.

Every day more and more clients contact agents with complaints about links that cannot be found or folders/files not included in the package. But we want to assure you that our software does not contain such silly defects. So, I want to shed some light on the subject.

 

1) Not found links. Also known as 404 error.

The point is that many links in Dolphin are permalinks, i.e. these links do not contain any extensions, such as html or php. Permalinks are good for search engines that's why we use them widely in our script. Permalinks are processed by the so called mod_rewrite module which should be installed in Apache. We state this in Dolphin technical requirements. But it's only a half of the problem. The second requirement is presence of appropriate rewrite instructions in the file .htaccess which should be uploaded on your server into Dolphin's installation directory. You can find this file in Dolphin distribution package. Make sure that this file is not empty and has been properly uploaded. It is a hidden file so you may not find it in your FTP client. But you should be able to find it in your CPanel's File Manager.

You also need to make sure that the REWRITE module is really included in your APACHE compilation. Address to the tech support of your hosting company to figure that out.

 

2) Now regarding not found files and folders.

In the previous step I already told you about the .htaccess file and why it may be invisible. But there are some folders in Dolphin package that may not be even extracted only because they are EMPTY. Yes, some extracting software does not support extracting empty folders or files. In this case, you need to apply some keys which will allow you to do that. But these keys are specific for each extracting software type. Ok, the only tweak that you can do here is extract the package on your local computer using WinZIP or WinRAR and then upload the contents using File Manager or FTP client. This will take a while, that's why I would recommend you extract the package on the server (using File Manager in CPanel) and then create or re-upload the missing files or folders.

Thank you for your attention.

 
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mydatery
This should be made as a sticky post to the forums (Say at the top of 7.0, top of 6.1, top of Dolphin General and so on) so everyone sees it. It's probably the most popular question out there. I'd even suggest making this the very beginning of the install instructions, you know, at yoursite.com/install/index.php would be a great place for this to make sure everyone sees it.
DosDawg
quite frankly those directories that are not created, should be created as part of the app, and then you can check to see if they are in fact existent. to have an application with missing directories is absurd, and yes they are missing, if you have create them then they are missing, and that shouldnt be. i personally have not ran into such an issue, but i can understand from what you are saying about certain directories are not created until some instantiating behavior from the script takes place. see more

I can say i am more than happy about the finality of the undulating file permissions gig has stopped driving most of us crazy. i also think you should have a txt file in the installation package with all of the file permissions listed. all file permissions, not just some of them.

with all of the checks that you guys have the install script doing, can we not get it to check to see if mod_rewrite is on? and if not then at that time enable the user the ability to disable permalinks. then you wont have the issues of your agents getting as you deem it 'spammed' with emails. to a user who has spent $998.00 on an application without one iota of documentation on how to install or use this application, the fact that the agent is essentially the only avenue of support that is offered, so this is not "spamming" and i think you used wrong terminology on that.

where is the install manual that would explain to somebody who has spent $998.00.

you should be ashamed of yourself for releasing something with no documentation, then declaring that your paying customers are spamming your mail box.

that really pisses me off that you have posted this, instead of writing something as an informative, you have to use some derogatory title.

you need to check yourself on that one.

Regards,
DosDawg
IgorL
Hello DosDawg.

I said what I wanted to say, and I used this term because spamming means sending many mails usually with the same contents. It's none more than your own assumption about what other meaning I could have put into this term. As well as other multiple assumptions that you make (paying customers, absence of documentation, etc.) You're like sitting there and producing one assumption in a minute even without trying to move somewhere else, click some extra links in your browser and eventually see more find our Trac area with the very documentation you're talking about.

Now regarding your comment about "ability to check if mod_rewrite is installed". Did you ever saw Dolphin technical requirements? I think we have specified enough info there that you should check with your hosting provider. Just imagine that sometimes you need to communicate with people to clarify some things. And no script can substitute this communication. You should not cover yourself in some kind of a shell but socialize and try to get more knowledge about the subject without us pushing you into doing this.

Actually the term "spam" refers mostly to those who don't bother clicking some extra links and reading some extra info on this site. The problem specified here was raised already in Dolphin 6.x and I believe it is my right to call such requests "a spam" especially when the fix has been published in the Trac for months.

Yes, I'm ashamed, but I'm ashamed of you doing nothing but trying to pour some dirty stuff on my comments. Try to help, create other posts that will help people overcome these troubles. We cannot oversee every possible problem, and our clients comments and posts help us very much, but if they spam us with something that already was discussed and published some months ago, that is very discouraging, you know.

Ok, the steam has been released.

Best regards to you and all our dedicated customer,
Igor.
DosDawg
Well i am not going to get into a pissing contest with you but i will clearly define spam for you since you have a definition that is relevant to your quaint recollection:

# Spam (electronic), unsolicited or undesired electronic messages (named after the Monty Python sketch); in particular:

* E-mail spam, unsolicited or undesired email messages

resource: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spam
DosDawg
lets go ahead and take this post to task:

"As well as other multiple assumptions that you make (paying customers, absence of documentation, etc.) You're like sitting there and producing one assumption in a minute even without trying to move somewhere else, click some extra links in your browser and eventually find our Trac area with the very documentation you're talking about."

I have clicked on links in my browser, and of course wont waste my time finding everything that is wrong see more in the purported documentation, as there is a 2000 character limit here.
what i will say to you on this specific subject, is that if anything is updated, its been updated in the last few days. and it is checked frequently by me, because i believe in reference points and utilizing good resources.
DosDawg
now this paragraph made absolutely no sense:

"Now regarding your comment about "ability to check if mod_rewrite is installed". Did you ever saw Dolphin technical requirements? I think we have specified enough info there that you should check with your hosting provider. Just imagine that sometimes you need to communicate with people to clarify some things. And no script can substitute this communication. You should not cover yourself in some kind of a shell but socialize and try see more to get more knowledge about the subject without us pushing you into doing this."

yes i have read the technical requirements, and up until just recently, they have lacked severely. so dont act as though this information has always been readily available. because i for one know better. and its good to see that you have updated the trac.
DosDawg
your reference to something that was discussed in the past, is actually a moot point:

"Actually the term "spam" refers mostly to those who don't bother clicking some extra links and reading some extra info on this site. The problem specified here was raised already in Dolphin 6.x and I believe it is my right to call such requests "a spam" especially when the fix has been published in the Trac for months."

We are talking about most likely a new customer base, that see more has not been around for months, and your statement is untrue, that this 'fix' has been posted in trac for months. Dolphin 7 was released as a final version Christmas day, or has that been forgotten. So the 'spam' as you consider it, would most likely be from new members, who have started using the software.

So if files that are part of the installation that would generate a report of missing files or folders was written to trac 'months' ago, im sure this should have been something an agent would have the answer for immediately. thus, after seeing an influx of reports of the same topic, then a community sticky, or a generalized email out to all license holders, would have sufficed. we seem to be able to get emails blasted to us when it seems to benefit certain other factors of boonex.
DosDawg
my dirty stuff: indeed it dirty when it puts you in the street:

"Yes, I'm ashamed, but I'm ashamed of you doing nothing but trying to pour some dirty stuff on my comments. Try to help, create other posts that will help people overcome these troubles. We cannot oversee every possible problem, and our clients comments and posts help us very much, but if they spam us with something that already was discussed and published some months ago, that is very discouraging, you know."

you think see more what i posted was dirty, no it was factual, and its the type of support that i do provide. i post in these forums generally every day. i help some new customer/member on here every day, and i am glad to help, so please dont come on here with your infrequent post, stating that your inbox is being spammed.

a nice community announcement would have been more beneficial. as infrequent as the staff from boonex actually posts to the forums or blogs, please be more considerate of those who have spent their hard earned money.

if you are going to sell something at whatever price, with the offer of support, then you need to be prepared to support through to the end, not just long enough to get the cash.


and igor, this is not a direct toss at you sir, you work very hard, i know you do, but please understand, i am here in the trenches, women who are crying because they spent their money, men who are their wits end because stuff dont work. the economy is terrible, and for somebody to spend $299 or $998, then need help, not a blast out in the community that they are spamming your inbox.

Regards,
DosDawg
IgorL
Ok, John.

I have changed the topic heading. I wanted to express how multiple those requests are although the track article that you have found refers to Dolphin 7.0 to the same extent. That is why I said "months" instead of "days".

And I want to say that I explained this issue to every member who emailed me without sending them to the trac. Trac articles are being updated as soon as a new problem is detected and that can happen several times a day. That's why it is impossible see more to inform our clients about every minor change. This way this will be their turn to consider us "spammers".

And most of the requests were from returning customers which seemed sad to me so I want to encourage everyone once again to read the Trac articles and be active on the forums helping other people with the same problems. We just can't manage to be here and there at the same time.

Thank you for your comments anyway.

Best regards,
Igor.
DosDawg
you are right on your suggestion that you cant be on here for every item. and that is correct sir. can we get some sticky notes in the forums that would refer to the trac? i have asked for better structure on the forums as well. i have sent some suggested outlines in regards to additional structure. like breaking it out into different functionalities.

this would really help, then in those threads we could have specific sticky posts that would reference the trac or any other documentation.

thanks see more igor

Regards,
DosDawg
LeatherSportB
It's really simple.

If a company's product requires a lot of support requests you do not blame the customer.

Ever hear the saying "The customer is always right!"

Anybody with their head in the right place (E.G. Not where the sun don't shine) should understand there is some kind of short coming with the documentation and/or installation possess. It doesn't matter if the instructions are 'out there' if the customer doesn't know that they need them, or where to find them.

Add an see more extra step to the installer.

Set up a simple RewriteRule using the .htaccess file in the install folder and 2 files. For example:

RewriteRule rewrite_test\.txt rewrite_works.txt

Then read the file:

$file = file_get_contents('http://yourhost.com/rewrite_test.txt');

If you get contents of rewrite_test.txt, mod_rewrite is not there.

Bonus points if rewrite_test.txt has a warning that mod_rewrite is not working, and includes directions/links on how to fix it.
houstonlively
Igor,

A long time ago in a blog post, I made the suggestion that Boonex provide a single php file that people could upload to their server, that would check to see if ALL server requirements are met, BEFORE they attempt an installation, with suggestions on how to correct the problem if one is found. I think to check for mod rewrite might take 2 or 3 files, but that's a lot simple than uploading and installing D7. The purpose of this would be to help people make sure that their server meets installation see more requirements, and if there are server problems, to encourage people to work things with their server and hosting company.

When I made that suggestion, it was basically ridiculed by Boonex staff..... the reason being that the installation script already does the checks. HELL-OOOOOO..... if you have to attempt an installation to see if the server meets requirements, you are going to get a ton of complaints like the ones you mentioned. Maybe that requirements check script doesn't seem like such a bad idea now..... does it.

What did you guys think was going to happen when you gave every existing member of this site, a Boonex staff member as an agent? And for $5, any new member can send mail to an agent?? If you think you are flooded with mails now, you haven't seen anything yet.... just wait until the Dolphin auto-installer is installed on tens of thousands of websites owned by blithering idiots. When you guys created the agent system, and made it available to every member of this site, you overestimated the average intelligence of the people that would be using it. Giving everybody such easy, and cheap acces to an agent was a big mistake in my opinion.
houstonlively
Why don't you guy fix it so we can't double post?

Giving everybody such easy, and cheap access to an agent was a big mistake in my opinion. You guys really should rethink the system a bit, or else your staff will be so busy reading all these nuisance mails, you won't have time for anything else. It's hard to take something back once you've given it, but you need to place some sort of limitations on the agent system according to membership level. Doing that will piss some people off, but that's see more life in the big city.
Zarcon
Mind if I make a suggestion regarding the whole "Agents" thing? You have 5 people here for tens of thousands of members...Its not gonna work. Why not create some sort of 1st level support? I created a blog post a little while back about creating a new membership level called "Dolphin Techs". Understanding that this will not be done, you could however ask some of the veteran Dolphin users here (ex. myself , houstonlively, DosDawg, Deano92964, Mauricecano, etc...there are many more.) see more if they would volunteer as a 1st line of support. This way some of these issues could be resolved before they even got to an "Agent", and much quicker. Maybe a support Chatroom, who knows.

Now, with that being said, Im not saying everyone would agree to this but its just a suggestion. This way, if the 1st line of support could not resolve the issue, THEN we could contact an agent.

Then again, maybe Im just trying to construct an 'actual' line of support like we have here at work..(Tier I, Tier II, and Tier III) maybe its a bad idea :)

Chris
houstonlively
Maybe they should outsource support to a call center in India.
houstonlively
The first level of suppport should be the forums. With this many users, you can't possibly allow everybody access to an agent. You'd need too many agents, most of which would have no desire to spoon feed people. No one wants to answer the same questions over and over and over again,
buckmcgoo
Boonex has never really gone by "the customer is always right" and if you read the forums/blogs here you will see why.. but allowing every single user their own agent is a HORRIBLE idea, then allowing people to chose their own agent?? SUPER HORRIBLE idea.. it is going to lead to Anton having a nervous break down. God knows if I worked for Boonex I wouldn't want my inbox filled with "how du i custamize my dolfin?" emails.
Luke75
All I can say is I run a business and whether a customer is right or wrong, you treat them with respect and communicate that accordingly. I'd like to see what my potential clients or clients would say if I said to them stop spamming me.
I appreciate your help Igor and understand you're inundated with requests, but writing a blog post like this really sends a bad image.

I agree with the comments about Agents, it doesn't seem to work, its a nice idea. But whats the point if the agents are too busy see more to respond, or too annoyed about getting similar questions.
mydatery
Wow! Did a Boonex Staff Member actually show some anger here? A little passion and frustration? And to think, DD's the one that set it off.

I'd add more to this, but it'd be considered "Provocative" by someone and deleted. So I'll just let it go at that.

You know what I'm talking about too guys.
I think one of the biggest problems in the .htaccess i saw on many servers is,

that the line

RewriteBase / (for dolphin in root)

or

RewriteBase /yourdolphinfolder/ (where your dolphin folder is)

is missing and required for many servers

also the same for orca .htaccess
Dj_Pilgrim
amazing everyone crys about the agents when the agents are saying.were swampt ... and ok simple to READ the INSTALL its provided. then turn around and flat hand them for tring to explaine that a 404error means your not reading the installation text that is provided, correctly and then backhand them for giving you low cost support. what a bunch of wanks. heres a suggestion. stop clogging the pipes and let them work. if they wish to post a blog in refrance to costumer or user error, they should have see more that privlage. oh and last thing.. the ones who should be complaining about costs are the agents. they dont get paid enough to eat your sh!#.
AngelusUK
I am probably opening my mouth where it isn't wanted and probably don't have a right to seeing as I am not a dolphin guru or a really long standing member of unity...But I do pay for my license and have been trying to get dolphin 7 working on one of my websites (so far, with no joy)

I took the relevant paths by searching out my problem, but couldn't find any answers at all - then deano and DosDawg tried to kindly help - when nothing worked, I contacted Anton which was a few days ago now, but didn't see more get a reply, so two days later (I think it was), I emailed support and explained the problem....still no answer, so I can only assume that they are so busy trying to get through (or totally ignoring) all of the email which has been wrongly labled "spam".

I always understood spam to mean getting unwanted or the same emails over and over from the same company (using differenf emails) or the same email from the same person, over and over again, I didn't think that the same questions sent via email by many different people would be seen as spam. That to me, seems like boonex are saying all of its customers should have some psychic ability - and know what other members (who they have probably never spoken to in their life) are asking boonex "via email" at that very moment?

I for one won't pay out my hard earned money until I know something is working, which was why I chose dolphin in the first place, to try the software out before I went ahead and got a license! So, as an outsider looking in - boonex really need to take note of the suggestions on here, cause I for one would find it a boon to be able to ask one of the more experienced (and might I add very helpful) forum members, who in my experiance so far, have 99.9% of the time helped me solve my problems with the software.

Anyway, thats my two-penneth stuck in, hope I didn't do wrong my posting here, but at the moment I am one of many "Very" frustrated dolphin users.
LeatherSportB
The sad thing is, not found / mod rewrite is easy to fix from a installer / documentation standpoint.

I figured it out on my own, but I have been doing this kind of stuff for years.

Whats actually hard to get working correctly, even compared to D6 is Videos. (not found, not processed, won't upload over 2M, no audio for recordings...)
Spinetta
Wow. I'm actually glad I stumbled on this post before buying a license, your little rant here Igor just lost you a customer. To see a member of the staff go off in this fashion....for shame. Ya'll can delete this if you want, and probably will, but I'm going to say it anyway. I have one simple question. Will Boonex Staff EVER pull their heads out of their a**es?

I am a professional web developer, I own a hosting company & boast a customer base of over 25,000 clients. I came here, hoping that see more Dolphin 7 was going to finally be the release that is worth installing & introducing my clients to. Over the past few years I have tried Dolphin 4, 5, and 6. I always end up deleting it. Why? It is a royal pain to install, errors are constant, the "documentation" is a joke and trying to find solutions to the multiple errors it generates is next to impossible. To someone that's never used it before Trac is extremely hard to navigate, if they happen to find it at all - I know that it took someone from the forums pointing me to it the first time around & even then it did not contain a clear solution on how to fix the problems I was having.

It really is a shame that Boonex doesn't provide better support. Dolphin has GREAT potential, always has, but until Boonex actually sits down & writes a STEP-BY-STEP installation and troubleshooting guide your software is going nowhere & frankly for the "support" you do provide, the licensing fees are absurd. Just my $0.02
Spinetta
Oh, one last thing. As far as the issue with the folders not being unzipped, the solution is simple, obvious even & has been in use since archiving files was a new thing. Put a file in the folder. A blank index.html if that's what it takes. From a security perspective, especially on standard Apache systems, there should be one there anyway. Just another thing to add to the ever-growing list of things to shake my head to & walk off from Dolphin/Boonex.
annabel
I agree with Spinetta. We need a step-by-step installation and troubleshooting guide to avoid stupid and unnecessary questions to the agents.

I started by searching on the forums when I encountered a problem, but at this moment the forums are overloaded and the 'search' option is not really helpful.

Regarding the Dolphin script : I get more support from my provider then I get from Boonex staff.
Andrew Boon
As for titles... I reckon we're not in IR games here and can stand a word if you know the meaning anyway.

As for other comments, I can say that we do need a more accessible Manual and Troubleshooter, which will be available ASAP. Agents are already working on this.
IgorL
Dear Customers.

Please don't blame BoonEx because of my involuntary intention to accept this emotional poke. My response is only my response, so crucify me and no one else. I will try to make Trac more up-to-date and contain as many troubleshooters as there can be.

Actually, my first intention was to explain the bug and its fix, and I just didn't forsee your possible attitude to the specific words in my topic. I will strive to write more professional and less emotional topics in the future.

I'm see more sorry if I made one or a few clients give up on Dolphin but maybe Dolphin's so complicated because it's so powerful. So I suggest you not to catch such emotional pokes (the way I did it) and try to produce objective opinions rather than subjective ones.

Thank you,
Igor Lebedev.
dare2audition
These posts are helping me make a decision as to whether dolphin is stable enough to use for a corporate website. As a non tech person the above is daunting. I never want free support. I want good support and when I need it. There is no use having a service that is cheap or free if you cannot use it because the people running it are swapped with work. And finding paid support has not been easy either. I just checked on one tonight and the site has all sorts of error messages and the facebook see more connection connected me to the site with someone else's facebook account. As a novice I do love dolphin and check in every few months to see if its being considered more stable by the people using it (by checking the forums) before I spend funds buying th license and then thousands of dollars to have it customised for my purpose.

Ill keep checking in to see where dolphin is at but honestly fee from what I see that the boonex site is great but the software seems to have problems when it has any customisation. This may be the customises and not dolphin it self though.

thanks
 
 
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